Insurance Agent Forum

[JRoot]

I'm curious what most health agents views are and why...

[somarco]

Food, shelter and health care is available to all. The question is how to pay for it.

If society chooses, individually or collectively, to voluntarily aid those who lack funds to pay for their basic needs then that is their choice. We as taxpayers should not be obligated to provide shelter, food or medical care to citizens and non-citizens alike on a carte blanche basis.

Hillary's speech last night made me want to barf. Anyone who buys into that crap is an idiot. It is not the role of government to educate our children, provide jobs, lower energy bills or provide universal medical care.

And FWIW, too many people conflate health care with health insurance. They are not the same thing.

[patch36]

Originally Posted by somarco

We as taxpayers should not be obligated to provide shelter, food or medical care to citizens and non-citizens alike on a carte blanche basis.

It is not the role of government to educate our children, provide jobs, lower energy bills or provide universal medical care.

Actually it is and has been for a long time. Perhaps in 1776 it was not the role of the government, but this changed many years ago as our society and government changed. In fact, education has been provided at government/taxpayer expense for several hundred years?

Healthcare? The government has provided healthcare free of charge to the indigent, poor, imprisoned, government workers, elderly, children, ect for a long time now too.

The government has chosen to set energy policy putting us not at the mercy of supply and demand, but rather regulation and tax driven control over our energy.

The genie is out of the bottle and to try to shove the cork back in without spitting on it first is akin to, well... perhaps my visualization is best left to your imaginations.

We are now faced with whether we want to continue subsidizing a broken system rife with greed and profit or a socialized system rife with mandates, greed and profit. We already pay for the poor, disenfranchised, elderly, veterans, government workers, children, and on and on. Why not make Guaranteed Issue, price controlled insurance available to the rest of us stuck in the middle who are willing to pay group prices, but are excluded because we don't work for the government and we are independent businessmen with pre-existing conditions? I'll pay $500 a month for a $1000 deductible 80/20 PPO, but I can't. I am diabetic and because I don't belong to a group, uninsurable, except in the state pool, which is a joke.

Its too late and the pendulum has swung. Healthcare for more that the poor and the elderly will become a requirement, not a right. Do I totally and idealistically buy into the premise? No, but...the genie is out of the bottle, and we need to find ways to influence the outcome so it is just not another entitlement program that is not sustainable.

BTW. I really dislike Hillary.

[somarco]

Be careful what you wish for . . .

RomneyCare

[patch36]

I know

The whole thing reminds me of a Jethro Tull song, Locomotive Breath.

Its a runaway train.

[bill3173]

Health insurance is a privledge, but its being promoted as a right. Isn't it funny how our "rights" in so many areas eventually become laws that are enforced ultimately, at the point of a gun. I know that's a twisted analogy, but it is evident, that we have so many more "rights" now, than we did when I was a child, that result in punitive action if not "enjoyed".

[JMO Fan]

Health care is a choice, not a right. Current mandates make me pay (via taxes, insurance, and increased medical bills) for those who don't, via unpaid emergency room, hospital and doctor visits. Given that those uneven healthcare "grants" won't go away, government should enable a more sensible system by requiring all citizens buy basic (HDHP or better) coverage, with subsidies for those who can't, penalties for those who refuse.

"Romneycare" has some basic principles which states should consider seriously. Dems took over Massachusetts "Romneycare" after Romney left office, so it's unfair to blame him for the costly tweaks which Dems added later. Romney himself has opposed suggestions that other states duplicate the Massachusetts model, but says they should make it fit each state's needs.

McCain's plan makes a lot of sense. Mitt could make it great. My choice is clear.

[Norwayguy]

The Mass system and Maine's Dirigo are similar in that they cost tens of millions each and cover paltry few, 13,000 in Maine on Dirigo and 18,000 in Mass if you don't count the expanded Medicaid and government plans.

[JMO Fan]

Massachusetts & Maine methods appear to be working for them:

Texas Still Leads Nation In Rate Of Uninsured Residents

However, looking at 2007 by itself, the percentage of uninsured in the country fell from 15.8 percent in 2006 to 15.3 percent in 2007.
...
But the numbers are misleading, said John Goodman, ... who helped craft Sen. John McCain's health care policy, ... anyone with access to an emergency room effectively has insurance, albeit the government acts as the payer of last resort. ... Instead, the bureau should categorize people according to the likely source of payment ....

Nationally, the overall number without insurance fell to 45.7 million last year, from 47 million in 2006.
...Uninsured rates by states
HIGHEST percent. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . LOWEST percent
1. Texas -- 24.8 % . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1. Massachusetts -- 7.9 %
2. New Mexico -- 22.7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2. Hawaii -- 8.2
3. Florida -- 20.7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3. Minnesota -- 8.8
4. Louisiana -- 20.2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4. Maine -- 9.1
5. Mississippi -- 19.8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5. Connecticut -- 9.4

Texas Still Leads Nation In Rate Of Uninsured Residents - 8/27/2008 - insurancenewsnet.com

Mass., Minn. & Maine methods meshed with Mitt & McCain could save Medicare & Medicaid

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Originally Posted by JMO Fan

Massachusetts & Maine methods appear to be working for them:

Mass., Minn. & Maine methods meshed with Mitt & McCain could save Medicare & Medicaid

Ok, great. Let's move to Massachusetts or Connecticut. Do you have any idea what the tax burden is there?

We should be willing to fork over more revenue to governments - why? Due to their track record of being fiscally responsible?

[JMO Fan]

Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas

Ok, great. Let's move to Massachusetts or Connecticut. Do you have any idea what the tax burden is there?

We should be willing to fork over more revenue to governments - why? Due to their track record of being fiscally responsible?

Requiring citizens to have coverage (i.e., in exchange for emergency room coverage) does not add taxes. McCain's proposed health insurance tax credits would restore individual responsibility, and make insurance more affordable. Each state could then decide how much to subsidize those who still couldn't afford coverage (and penalize those who could, which could help offset state costs).

Massachusetts mandates cost more money than most states would be willing to spend, but the majority there won't tolerate less coverage, hence more taxes. Mitt rightly refused to recommend a national system should mimic Mass. Each state should adopt its own method based upon its acceptable tax burdens vs coverage requirements.

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Originally Posted by JMO Fan

McCain's proposed health insurance tax credits would restore individual responsibility, and make insurance more affordable.

No, it won't. Not anymore than Obama's contention that if insurance were "more affordable" more people would buy it.

If it was $25 per month some people wouldn't buy it.

The largest driver of the cost of health insurance is the cost of health care.

Until we are willing to confront questions like how much we're willing to spend to keep Grandmom alive for another four months (do you have any idea what % of healthcare dollars are spent on people who won't live another 12 months?) we'll never get anywhere.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe anymore government programs run by idiot politicians. I truly believe the free market works best.

But if people are allowed to show up in the emergency room and expect treatment - there's got to be some provision for them to pay for it!

The Dutch have a very interesting system. Everyone has to have "base coverage" - which is done on a GI basis, and collected through payroll tax (generally). They get a voucher to choose which private company they'll use. Additionally, there are supplemental packages available (not GI) to "add on" coverage.

It accomplishes two things: number one it forces responsibility on those who won't take it and transfer the costs on to other, more responsible folks.

Perhaps more importantly, it keeps the government out of the health insurance business and keeps the principles of free market competition in the mix.

[somarco]

Chuck said the genie is already out of the bottle. Maybe, but that does not mean that SS is a perfect system.

For almost 70 years senior citizens have had a floor income "provided" for them courtesy of the working stiffs. It never was intended to be the only source of income but rather a safety net.

Yet how many of our senior citizens cry they are living on a fixed income that forces them to decide between food and medicine?

For years Medicare (a 40 yr old health care program for seniors) did not cover doctor visits or Rx. Even with the new Part D Rx plan they will still have the donut (or whatever it is called) that requires them to pay $3600 or so out of pocket and even that isn't good enough.

Every year Medicare premiums (Part B) go up as do deductibles and copays.

If it is the role of government to provide then why not revamp SS and Medicare to allow everyone to enjoy the last years of their life without income worries and free, unfettered health care?

Fix that sinking ship before screwing around with the rest of the system.

[bill3173]

Originally Posted by somarco

Fix that sinking ship before screwing around with the rest of the system.

That makes too much sense, besides, if you keep talking like that, you're going to be sent to a re-training camp.

[SportsNut]

Originally Posted by bill3173

That makes too much sense, besides, if you keep talking like that, you're going to be sent to a re-training camp.

Or they may place him in charge of the asylum.