This is a hard hit for her because New Hampshire will be even tougher.
It is good to see her out there running. She either needs to be elected or put down hard once and for all with a silver stake in her. You will see Bill out there humping away for her (certainly not with her) but that will only get her so far.
I was part of the crowd that thought she was inevitable. I have changed my mind and pretty much enjoy being wrong about that.
Huckabee did well but basically is headed nowhere outside the evangelical belt. New Hampshire folks are either not religious or keep it to themselves, mostly. Romney was doing well but now has bumped up against McCain getting traction again. Its wide open on both sides.
They say that Iowa doesnt really count and in some ways it doesnt but I dont know if I agree with that. People get slapped around and rolled over so hard that you get a lot of information about the candidates. Hillary took it in the chops hard. So did Edwards really, given the fact that he has been campaigning there for four years. What are you going to do for an encore in the other states?
I would not underestimate Hillary though. She plays nasty and her investigators will rip Obama apart as they hinted at before just like Hillary did with every bimbo that accused Bill because she needed Bill to survive so that she could be president someday.
Huckabee did well but basically is headed nowhere outside the evangelical belt. New Hampshire folks are either not religious or keep it to themselves, mostly.
What I simply don't understand is why the old-line conservative establishment are against him... especially Rush Limbaugh? (I find RL entertaining, but am not a regular listener anymore. I knew him when he was in Sacramento, where he got his big break. Nice man actually... but out there on the far, far right... too far for me!)
Months ago when she had an insane poll rating - over 50% nationally claiming they were "pro Hillary" I knew when it came time for people to push the button it wouldn't happen.
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What I simply don't understand is why the old-line conservative establishment are against him... especially Rush Limbaugh? (I find RL entertaining, but am not a regular listener anymore. I knew him when he was in Sacramento, where he got his big break. Nice man actually... but out there on the far, far right... too far for me!)
Al
To you have a brain at all Al? It was Huckabee that started (as in one of his advisors attacking Rush in a editorial) in on Rush not visa versa. Huckabee, is no conservative and will likely get his head handed too him in South Carolina (referring to the Republican Primary voter tends to be conservative).
Don't worry Al, you need to be a centrist to actually win the general election. Huckabee is a bit too "odd" to even win a general election. You're getting riled up over nothing.
Don't worry Al, you need to be a centrist to actually win the general election. Huckabee is a bit too "odd" to even win a general election. You're getting riled up over nothing.
Depends upon who he runs against. I don't know, they all seem a bit odd to me, on all sides.
Well there's no doubt that Huckabee's running on a religious platform. I'm only 40 but I can't remember any president elected that made religion a focal point. I'm not sure most people even knew what the religions were for Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, Ford, etc...
Well there's no doubt that Huckabee's running on a religious platform. I'm only 40 but I can't remember any president elected that made religion a focal point. I'm not sure most people even knew what the religions were for Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, Ford, etc...
As others noted, it seems that the media has concentrated on his being an ex Baptist Preacher, why not a guitarist that once open up for fairly large names in music as in Charles Daniels Band (spelling)? In fact, I listen to some of his speeches, not many but, I don't recall him having a quote "Christian" slant that would stand him out. G.W. Bush in fact did play on his religion awakening as in the whole alcohol problem and "Jesus" as his favorite thinker. In fact, if my memory serves me, Carter sounded more like a Southern Baptist as does Huckabee, going back some years trying to recall some of Carter's earlier speeches.
Yet though, Huckabee is running for a demographic and yes small town christian value is within it as is Home Schooler's but, I wouldn't call him a conservative, in fact the guy seems liberal if you listen to what he is promoting, as in government solutions.
Okay, he is now in NH promoting from what I understand the "Fair Tax", need to hear more about that from him. Not sure if he is referencing the actual "Fair Tax" or has his own so called Fair Tax?
What I simply don't understand is why the old-line conservative establishment are against him... especially Rush Limbaugh? (I find RL entertaining, but am not a regular listener anymore. I knew him when he was in Sacramento, where he got his big break. Nice man actually... but out there on the far, far right... too far for me!)
Al
I think the Huckster will do well in South Carolina (can't say the same for Edwards even though it is his homestate) but I dont know where and how he could get enough momentum for a national election. If you take the clear losers (I suppose non-winners would be more palatable) out of the mix on both sides such as Biden, Ron Paul, Richardson, Dodd, Thompson,
Whatever, all the rest are likely to make a good showing here or there but whether they will consistently make a good showing is another matter. Obama, McCain, Huck, Guiliani, Hillary and Romney are all going to do well somewhere. Not sure about Edwards, don't think he is headed anywhere.
So, yeah, Huckabee might get a little buzz from South Carolina. I don't think that means he will be dining in the capital next year. That isnt even assured for some who have ten times the following he does.
Mark my words. Obama needs to watch his ass. He will not make it through the next several weeks without an "unidentified staff member in Hillary's campaign" releasing some dirt on him. That leopard is not going to change her spots. She is smart enough to position herself so that she will have no knowledge of it too, allegedly.
You're probably right and I also think some of this was bad timing due to Christmas - the media really over-blew his Christmas ad.
I'll be paying attention to Huckabee's speeches now that the holiday season is over with and you're probably be right that it's just the media's portrayal of him as some type of religious nut.
I have to admit that I have not listened to many Huckabee speeches.
Last edited by healthagent : 01-04-2008 at 03:09 PM.
Mark my words. Obama needs to watch his ass. He will not make it through the next several weeks without an "unidentified staff member in Hillary's campaign" releasing some dirt on him. That leopard is not going to change her spots. She is smart enough to position herself so that she will have no knowledge of it too, allegedly.
Winter
I have no doubt that the Hilderbeast will attack, it is how the Dem's play it that counts. Don't think it gonna play within the Party or Media, well maybe on CNN. It seems to me that the Democrats are waking up with a hangover and saying "NO" to the Clinton's. Have they not done enough damage already? What, you think they'll give them another 4, 8 or more years of control? As I noted in earlier threads, the Hilderbeast and Bill is walking into a buzzsaw of their own making.
LOL, the Hilderbeast is still saying she was never the frontrunner in IA, yea right! If her mouth is moving she is lying.
You're probably right and I also think some of this was bad timing due to Christmas - the media really over-blew his Christmas ad.
I'll be paying attention to Huckabee's speeches now that the holiday season is over with and you'll probably be right that it's just the media's portrayal of him as some type of religious nut.
I have to admit that I have not listened to may Huckabee speeches.
I've only seen a few, not like he really got that much attention till the last few weeks. Yet I just don't see it, the religious zealot that is. In fact, I see more a liberal zealot then a religious zealot. Or maybe its just me, can not say I like any of them outside of Thompson but, he seems to be dead in the water. If SC has any surprises, IMHO it will be Thompson's move but, that might be more wishing then anything else.
I have no doubt that the Hilderbeast will attack, it is how the Dem's play it that counts. Don't think it gonna play within the Party or Media, well maybe on CNN. It seems to me that the Democrats are waking up with a hangover and saying "NO" to the Clinton's. Have they not done enough damage already? What, you think they'll give them another 4, 8 or more years of control? As I noted in earlier threads, the Hilderbeast and Bill is walking into a buzzsaw of their own making.
LOL, the Hilderbeast is still saying she was never the frontrunner in IA, yea right! If her mouth is moving she is lying.
The Republicans will attack Hillary now, not as the frontrunner, but so that Obama will get the nomination. If dirt comes out (should have said "when" not if) on Obama they would be smart to attack Hillary for it and keep Obama moving ahead. The swing voters might go for Hillary because she pulled toward the center on the war etc in order to capture more voters. The swing voters are less likely to go for Obama because he is not conservative or moderate on any issues.
CAUTION! Bill Clinton lost both Iowa and New Hampshire. Do not turn your back on the dreaded Hilderbeast.
The only thing I know is for the first time since I've been of voting age I have absolutely no clue as to who the front runners are none less who has a real shot at winning the general election. I'm personally a Rudy fan and used to think he had a shot.
Last edited by healthagent : 01-04-2008 at 06:37 PM.
I believe only a silver bullet and a wooden stake would be required to kill the Hildebeast.
Sadly, I believe Iowa and New Hampshire don't really matter all that much. The political machines in the big states such as California will have Clintonistas IN FORCE and Obama will simply find himself a fly exhausted from continually having to avoid the swatter, until......POUNCE!
I believe only a silver bullet and a wooden stake would be required to kill the Hildebeast.
Sadly, I believe Iowa and New Hampshire don't really matter all that much. The political machines in the big states such as California will have Clintonistas IN FORCE and Obama will simply find himself a fly exhausted from continually having to avoid the swatter, until......POUNCE!
Not sure. Clintons base is split now. She was counting on the black vote but Obama obviously has a large share of those votes now. She was counting on the loony left but she tried to walk the middle road with the war and so Obama scooped the loons. She was counting on the womens vote but a lot of women hate her and Oprah's support of Obama let women know that it is okay to vote for a man. She was counting on Bills charisma but he has returned to the scene enough to start reminding people how long it took to get rid of him.
She expected to be in a fight with the right wing and have all the loons cheering her on but she is gasping for air trying to get the support from the left now even though she is a leftist. If it all gets too dirty then Bloomberg will enter with the big bucks and mix the whole thing up again.
She is gasping for air, no question about it. She is still right out there in front nationwide but she is going to have to work for a living to get the nomination.
Loving the whole thing. Would like to see Condi on the Repubican ticket even as VP because I prefer women who have worked to get where they are but she is too smart probably to fall into that trap. She's da man though! Very smart and very polite. I like her.
Well there's no doubt that Huckabee's running on a religious platform. I'm only 40 but I can't remember any president elected that made religion a focal point. I'm not sure most people even knew what the religions were for Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr, Reagan, Carter, Ford, etc...
Hmm, at 40 you might not remember this, but Jimmy Carter was right there as well. The whole thing with the fireside chats, transparency, etc.
His downfall (one of them) was his religious beliefs had him so compassionate for everyone, that he couldn't bring himself to do anything about the Iranian hostage crisis, which let Reagan move in.
Carter was not a southern baptist minister, but he was a southern baptist (if I recall correctly) and he used that a lot. This was my high school age election, so my views were pretty skewed then.
Hmm, at 40 you might not remember this, but Jimmy Carter was right there as well. The whole thing with the fireside chats, transparency, etc.
Good points... but we had just come out of the Watergate mess coupled with Vietnam (my draft board is probably still looking for me!) and Ford had just pardoned Nixon... people were so anxious for someone far outside the beltway and Carter, much like Huckabilly, filled that need. He talked the talk.
But Carter, unlike Huckabilly did not make his entire raison d'être Christian morality or values. Hell, he said he had "lust in his heart" (which got him MY vote in 1976!)
Carter's administration was a disaster from month one... when his director of OMB Bert Lance's past came back to haunt him. Then there was the fuel shortages and the Iran mess, followed by a credit crunch where mortgages were 18% or more!
But like Huckabilly, Carter could connect well with people. He was a terrible speaker but he used that to make him sound sincere. Personally I always thought that Rosalynn and Amy were running the country!
Like Bush, Carter made bad decisions on just about everything... but unlike Bush, he didn't have to run for re-election against someone as media-savvy as Reagan... who got my vote when he simply asked "Are you better off now than you were four years ago." That made everyone sit down for a minute an think... and with inflation running at 5% and unemployment at 7% (give or take) and people fed up with a "wimp" in a cardigan sweater, Ronnie won in a landslide. I remember coming home at 5 PM (PST) to vote and my new bride said "Don't bother... it's over" which it was. The networks called the election a minute after the polls closed in every state. No one except his mother voted for Carter.
Had Bush not run against THE most liberal senator in the country, he would have been dumped. All the Dems had to do was pull a couple of red states. But no. They just HAD to nominate someone guaranteed to lose. Edwards would have beaten Bush.
I don't believe Huckabilly can win a general election... and I think he would be another Carter. An Obama (or Edwards) ticket with Biden as VP would be a hard one for the Reps. to beat. Huckabilly's only chance is if the Dem's nominate Hillary who carries more negatives than he does.
Had Bush not run against THE most liberal senator in the country, he would have been dumped. All the Dems had to do was pull a couple of red states. But no. They just HAD to nominate someone guaranteed to lose. Edwards would have beaten Bush.
Al
Say what we will about this election cycle it is a step up over the last one. That was the goofiest election I can remember and I go back a ways. We were at war in Iraq and you would think that that would be the focus of discussion but no. Month after month after frigging month of talking about each others military service or lack thereof in Vietnam. We ended out learning more about their positions on Vietnam than Iraq. Just absolutley goofy. You say that Edwards could have beaten Bush but who knows. The whole thing could have gone down a rathole about his military service or lack thereof or whether he inhaled in college. At least this time around people are cranked up about some real issues.
I do realize that we are still in primary season and as we get down to the two nominees it could also rathole around whatever scandals or allegations come up. I hope that does not happen.
Hillary bites the dust in round one
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