HIV and Insurance

pomfin · 08-20-2009, 12:25 AM

Does anyone know any other insurance company can insure client with HIV? We have a client age 36 and contracted HIV more than 10 years ago. All I know is Presidential Life may take such client.

dgoldenz · 08-20-2009, 12:34 AM

Not without a graded death benefit.....

theinsuranceman · 08-20-2009, 04:14 AM

I can help with a Final Expense policy. Call Greg 252-292-3350.

souldeux · 08-20-2009, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by pomfin

Does anyone know any other insurance company can insure client with HIV? We have a client age 36 and contracted HIV more than 10 years ago. All I know is Presidential Life may take such client.

I'm in the middle of a case almost exactly like this (my guy's a little younger and hasn't had HIV as long, but very similar). I've found the following options:

Lincoln Benefit Group: they will insure certain strains of HIV at a table X rating - that's a 1300% rate increase. Extremely expensive, and the client will end up paying his entire DB in cash in about ten years or so.

West Coast Life: The Golden Protector XUL is a second-to-die policy where the secondary insured can be uninsurable. Put an older relative as the first to die (a mother or father, in most cases, if the relationship is good) and put your client on as the secondary. These are much cheaper, but the risk is obvious.

Presidential: They'll take your client, but I think the max is a $25k face.

Annuity products: Consider your annuity options. If the goal is wealth accumulation, then you might come out ahead here. If the goal is wealth preservation, then taxes get tricky.

Call me if you like and I'll go over all of this stuff with you.

dgoldenz · 08-20-2009, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by souldeux

I'm in the middle of a case almost exactly like this (my guy's a little younger and hasn't had HIV as long, but very similar). I've found the following options:

Lincoln Benefit Group: they will insure certain strains of HIV at a table X rating - that's a 1300% rate increase. Extremely expensive, and the client will end up paying his entire DB in cash in about ten years or so.

West Coast Life: The Golden Protector XUL is a second-to-die policy where the secondary insured can be uninsurable. Put an older relative as the first to die (a mother or father, in most cases, if the relationship is good) and put your client on as the secondary. These are much cheaper, but the risk is obvious.

Presidential: They'll take your client, but I think the max is a $25k face.

Annuity products: Consider your annuity options. If the goal is wealth accumulation, then you might come out ahead here. If the goal is wealth preservation, then taxes get tricky.

Call me if you like and I'll go over all of this stuff with you.

That's crazy....I know we talked briefly about the case you were working on, I'm surprised there's at least an option, had no idea there even was a Table X rate. Did you get an actual quote from LBL? Even at a 1300% rate increase, given your client's age the premiums would still be "cheap" in comparison to the death benefit, especially on the term policies.

There's a few companies that will allow an uninsurable person to be on a second-to-die policy, but as you said, the risk is obvious....especially trying to structure it in the manner you were talking about.

souldeux · 08-20-2009, 02:17 PM

Yeah, it's the same guy we talked about. I had no idea either until recently that LBL would do that. I only discussed their UL policies, so I'm not sure if it's limited to just UL and never term or what, but yeah. I think we looked at $1.5M for something like $90k a year (note that you'll get commissioned on the target premium, not the rateup).

There's really no perfect solution here. Find the one that hurts the least.

dgoldenz · 08-20-2009, 02:30 PM

With most companies the target premium is based on the table rating final calculation rather than just the base standard rate. Flat extras usually aren't commissioned, but a table rating should be, unless that's an exception just for this policy. Are they not allowing a term policy with the Table X? It looks like a 20 year policy would come out to around $26k/year and a 30 year policy around $32k/year for $1.5 million. Expensive, but not unreasonable.....someone still has to write the check though.

Jim · 08-20-2009, 03:01 PM

A few people mentioned Presidential but that will not happen he is to young.

Jim Sowder

Family 1st Insurance Brokerage

304-640-8914

fax: 206-337-3753

jimsowder@family1stinsurancebrokerage.com

rich10jr · 08-20-2009, 03:27 PM

What about a health insurance policy? I have an HIV clients that works but can not get on the group health policy with her employer. She tried to get on disability but was turned down. She is in good health except the HIV and in her late 20s.

dgoldenz · 08-20-2009, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by rich10jr

what about a health insurance policy? I have an HIV clients that works but can not get on the group health policy with her employer. She tried to get on disability but was turned down. She is in good health except the HIV and in her late 20s.

Never heard that one before......"I'm in great health, except for the 4 heart attacks I had last year. But it's all better now, doctor says I'm in good health!"

rich10jr · 08-20-2009, 03:46 PM

Sorry, I will explain. She tested positive for HIV. She has no adverse effects. The doctor has not prescribed any meds since her T cell count is within normal range (683 CD4 cells/ mm3)

souldeux · 08-20-2009, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by dgoldenz

With most companies the target premium is based on the table rating final calculation rather than just the base standard rate. Flat extras usually aren't commissioned, but a table rating should be, unless that's an exception just for this policy. Are they not allowing a term policy with the Table X? It looks like a 20 year policy would come out to around $26k/year and a 30 year policy around $32k/year for $1.5 million. Expensive, but not unreasonable.....someone still has to write the check though.

I think it must be a special case here - they told me they'd pay as though he were on the standard rating. I'm not sure about a term policy, because I only asked about a UL. I normally would say that if they're willing to take the risk on a permanent policy then certainly they're willing to take it on a term, but this is such a unique case that I don't think it's wise to take anything for granted.

Rich, when it comes to health, unless you've got a GI carrier, a mini-med, a group, or a risk pool lined up then it's no good. Nobody else will touch that.