Insurance Agent Forum

[BiggitySwat]

Folks,

As some of you may know, I kicked off my business in January (financial planning for retirees), and have been using seminar marketing the most to generate leads.

Lately, I've been somewhat stressed because I know what kind of prospect I want to attract with my seminars (have a very clear demographic and psychographic) but have been struggling to do so.

Here's who I want at the seminar:
Age 50-75, still working or retired
-• Relatively liberal and energetic in personality
-• Straightforward, honest, open minded
-• Often adventurous and trusting, able to judge one's character quickly
-• Can analyze relevant information and make a decision on it
-• Usually retired professional, entrepreneur or artist/entertainer
-• Does not have to be high net worth or "rich," but at least has $50,000 in liquid assets that can be rolled over for me to work with.
-• Cares about financial planning, estate planning, investing, insurance, etc. and believes in these services
-• Is willing to embrace change, either by rolling over a portion or all of their assets.
-• Generally knows what a Series 7 license is and other industry related terms
-• Loves working with younger people/advisors and can generally relate and talk about non-business topics with ease

I have been attracting these kinds of folks at my seminars (and in large quantities when prospecting certain areas) but lately, I have switched zip codes and have been attracting this kind of prospect:
Age 50-78
-• Worn out personality, as if they worked too hard during life and are burned out
-• Very quiet and withdrawn, noncommittal, nontrusting, will not share inner thoughts, feelings, etc. even after rapport and trust has been established
-• Takes forever to make decisions, and will analyze data until the day they die (massive procrastinators)
-• Usually retired public school teacher, engineer, widows
-• Usually does not have sizable *investable* assets, or has a small IRA/CD but does not want to part with it.
-• Extremely resistant to change - even positive change, proven
Emotionally and logically, and backed up by statistics, news articles, etc.
-• Is addicted to Bank CDs from banks and will listen to their brother/uncle/son/daughter/Suze Orman on CNN before listening to your advice.
-• Is suspicous of younger professionals and cannot relate

This board, my mentors, and various publications have told me one way or another that I am "spinning my wheels" with prospects I have no interest in (and many of them book appointments, but ultimately flake out of making a commitment, paying me an advisory fee, etc). They all say, "Biggity, YOU HAVE TO QUALIFY YOUR PROSPECTS OR ELSE YOU ARE PREACHING TO THE WRONG CHOIR."

But....HOW do you qualify seminar prospects without scaring possible leads away?

Example: an older advisor who gives me tips about his past successes said he started having his seminar mailers only target accredited investors (i.e. the wealthy crowd). His secretary would call the RSVP list ahead and verify their assets and that they were coming for the right reasons. If there was major resistance or nastiness on the phone after this general query, they would be *drumroll* asked not to come!

Me: My mailers target age 50-78, household owner, 40K+ income, but pretty much end there. I am casting a wide net.... I have been warned by the little voice in my head that if I make the mailer too restrictive, I may be cutting off my own foot and scaring away prospects who are not "rich," but still would make excellent clients and genuinely want to listen to a fresh voice. (And I have had a few of those)

I am grossing lots of money (securities commissions, Life/LTC sales, and fixed annuity commissions) from my seminars, but my *NET* profit is VERY POOR - so poor that some months, I have struggled to pay my meager personal bills (food, toothpaste, etc). I have tons of people come to my seminars, lots of appointments, but majority of these appointments are not qualified and are not seriously interested in what I have to offer.

Ladies and gents, please share with me what you think so I can attract the type of prospect that I enjoy working with and so that my $5000 dinner seminars will not be in vain......I love this industry and I enjoy my "A" clients, but does this mean I have to feed and present to 80% "C" clients to get the 20% out there who make my business a joy to do?

Surely, there has to be a smarter way for me to find my desired client through the medium of dinner seminars (which I enjoy doing).

[JustinUpright]

Maybe with a questionnaire when they are talking to you about an appointment. And if they don't fit into your mold let them know that you don't think you can help them at this time maybe refer them to someone that can and get a little commission from them.

[captain94]

When I started in the senior market I hooked up with a captive company that made me do seminars as the only way to generate leads. I did the mailers and paid for the dinners. after 3 months I never had a profit most of the people where "plate lickers" If My area was to rich they had a finacial advisor if it was moderate income area i did better but never made enough to cover the cost. After 3 months I said to hell with this and never did a seminar again. Now I can pay my bills. Seminars for the most part dont seem to work.

[Charpress]

Seminars work very well if you do them right.

You are never going to be able to qualify people along the lines of your post. If you use one of the very good mailing companies, you will be able to qualify people on several financial factors and on age.

You need to Google Craig Randall for some good tips on how to do a good seminar. If you have not subscribed to Senior Market Advisor, you need to.

Plate lickers are just part of the overhead. You need to find restaurants that are not exepensive but decent. The worst plate lickers like the expensive places. People that want to hear what you have to say will be fine with less expensive restaurants.

Throwing in an occasional "no free lunch" seminar can be good as well. Craig Randall actually prefers that venue.

[indaville]

Originally Posted by Charpress

Seminars work very well if you do them right.

I agree w/ everything Charpress said. Six months is a bit soon to see the real benefit start to work. I work with a lot of people that came to one of my seminars 6-months ago or sometimes I get a call from someone that came to a seminar two years ago and now the timing is right. Stick with it, the first year is the hardest!! My first year running seminars we did $6M in FIA business, this is my third year doing seminars and I will do $20M.

Matt

[BiggitySwat]

Originally Posted by indaville

I agree w/ everything Charpress said. Six months is a bit soon to see the real benefit start to work. I work with a lot of people that came to one of my seminars 6-months ago or sometimes I get a call from someone that came to a seminar two years ago and now the timing is right. Stick with it, the first year is the hardest!! My first year running seminars we did $6M in FIA business, this is my third year doing seminars and I will do $20M.

Matt

Yep, and we talked on the phone earlier about your approach and also talked to your man at the mailing house. I agree, seminars DO work and the purpose of this post is not to say otherwise. I enjoy doing seminars and won't ever quit doing them as my main lead generation tool. I just think that there has to be a better way to attract my desired prospects from this lead generation tool.

I know seminars work because I was kicking butt in the beginning of the year when I did seminars, and for some reasons, THESE set of seminars attracted a certain type of prospect that I really liked. Since then, for the sake of diversification, I switched venues, zip codes, demographic, etc. and have been "attracting" the less than ideal attendee.

In addition, my seminars have been working well in getting butts in the seat *and* booking appointments! The challenge lately though has been in booking appointments with folks who at least have an inkling of intention to rollover some money or listen. Many of the appointments booked will sit down with me but when it comes to making a decision, will not budge for fear of making hard changes (the most common objection for me).

[indaville]

Keep in mind it ebbs and flows. For me the summer months typically are not as good as the rest of the year. Your area might be different though. The market has been going up since March so we are finding more people that are willing to "ride it out." It is your job to give them some historical data which will create a sense of urgency in wanting to protect what they have left.

Or it could be a bad area. We have zips that are always great for us, we have other zips that are hit and miss. In the "bad" areas ask more clients to bring friends to those seminars, it will help your ratios smooth out from zip to zip.

Matt

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Originally Posted by BiggitySwat

Many of the appointments booked will sit down with me but when it comes to making a decision, will not budge for fear of making hard changes (the most common objection for me).

Can you really blame them?

With upheaval of the financial system, and thieves like Madoff, Stanford and the like, people are reticent and scared to death!

It's going to be some time (if ever) before any kind of trust comes back.

[BiggitySwat]

Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas

Can you really blame them?

With upheaval of the financial system, and thieves like Madoff, Stanford and the like, people are reticent and scared to death!

It's going to be some time (if ever) before any kind of trust comes back.

I can't blame them for scaring easily because of all the negativity on television and in the paper, but I can blame them for trusting me enough to come to my seminar and book an appointment, then not being willing to let go of a dime and try new things (i.e. keeping an open mind).

From my point of view, I sympathize for the people who have lost money with Madoff, Stanford, and with the wirehouses/mutual fund pushers.

But also, from my point of view, I was not a party to these losses, I had nothing to do with these men, and their actions should not cause a seminar prospect to prejudge me, when my 100% of my clients (over 100 so far) have not lost a dime with their cash value insurance, indexed annuities, non-traded securities, etc. My service and relationships have been excellent with my clients and a select few have given me referrals.

So yeah, I understand there's financial problems going on, but I won't let folks off the hook that easily. I think people do need to think critically here and separate the con men from the people that are serious about this business. The key for me is that I have indeed found these people who are still cautious, but ready to make some kind of decision with me (whether that be a $25K IRA or a $500K annuity rollover). It's just that lately, and from the communities I have been targeting so far, the attitudes are far, far different from what I initially encountered in January and it sucks. (Sucks is the best word I can use at this time ) My aim is to attract prospects who are optimists, not pessimistic and cynical. Maybe I should put on my mailer, "this seminar is for folks who believe not all advisors are out to screw you"

[healthagent]

From all the events of late what everyone has lost is trust...trust in everything. You have people like my parents in their late 70's and the only thing happening with their money is walking into their bank and getting another CD. They cannot afford trust.

[BiggitySwat]

Originally Posted by healthagent

From all the events of late what everyone has lost is trust...trust in everything. You have people like my parents in their late 70's and the only thing happening with their money is walking into their bank and getting another CD. They cannot afford trust.

I understand. And I also understand that people need to be educated about an illiquid bank CD making negative real returns after taxes and inflation, and also that many banks have fallen and will continue to fall, putting that shiny FDIC insured sticker to the test.

It's not just the CD folks that I find are scared, it's also folks with wirehouses/stockbrokers and in aggressive mutual funds! To them, a change from their familiar fund families and "asset allocation" into something different scares them to death and paralyzes them.

Point being - folks like your parents obviously have an agenda for their money and may not want to make a change, even if that is a positive change. But how does this situation help me in trying to grow a business and enjoy my job more via my seminars Most importantly, their perceptions of trust are out of my control, how exactly do you change these perceptions?

Edit/PS: I have found it easier to sell insurance (life and LTC) in this climate than before, but the reason why I am hesitant to shift to more product sales versus service sales is that I enjoy portfolio design and implementation more than selling insurance products as my core offering.

[moonlightandmargaritas]

Originally Posted by BiggitySwat

But how does this situation help me in trying to grow a business and enjoy my job more via my seminars Most importantly, their perceptions of trust are out of my control, how exactly do you change these perceptions?

The first step would be in realizing it's not all about YOU, it's all about THEM.

[Charpress]

Trust is a big issue and so is market volatility. Where we used to be able to move money in one or two meetings, now it takes four or more.

Don't forget that people do not know the basics of what you are about and what you do. We get this out of the way in one of the first slides in our presentations. Why they (the audience) is there -the benefit for them, and why we are there and, by implication, what is in it for us that justifies a free meal.

People need to understand some real basics, for example: that you never have custody of their money -not at any point. You don't have to blatantly say "we are not like Stanford" -you can do that with some subtlety.

By the way, I tried to get someone to move $1 million about 2 years ago and did not get anywhere even after four meetings. I ran into him recently and he sheepishly admitted he put the whole thing in Stanford's 8% CDs. Ouch. "If I ever get any of it back, I will put it with you." Not holding my breath.

[indaville]

Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas

The first step would be in realizing it's not all about YOU, it's all about THEM.

Great point! Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.

What percentage of your first appointments are becoming clients? You might have a good closing ratio just not enough "at bats?" I deal with a lot of the same issues you are complaining about, but my schedule is always close to full. So I don't care if someone wants to stay with their broker that just lost them 40+%, the next person I meet will want my help, that is my attitude.

Matt

Matt

[BiggitySwat]

Originally Posted by moonlightandmargaritas

The first step would be in realizing it's not all about YOU, it's all about THEM.

I saw this one coming, and I understand that I may have come off as selfish. Rest assured that I put the clients' needs first at all times, and I feel that I have been doing this because of my strong relationships with my current book. My clients and prospect know how much I care, but sometimes caring isn't enough to justify making a change IMHO.

Also understand that I moreso see my practice not as "them" or "me" but "us." My clients understand from the beginning that I desire a good relationship and that it takes two parties to make it work. I disclose that I am earning a living via fees and commissions, and in exchange, the client has value added services and products that can enhance their quality of life. I have not had one prospect or client wrinkle their nose at that. I think it's safe to say that my issues with prospects does not come down to conflicts of interest, lack of disclosure, or any perceived shadiness.

Originally Posted by indaville

Great point! Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.

What percentage of your first appointments are becoming clients? You might have a good closing ratio just not enough "at bats?" I deal with a lot of the same issues you are complaining about, but my schedule is always close to full. So I don't care if someone wants to stay with their broker that just lost them 40+%, the next person I meet will want my help, that is my attitude.

Matt

Matt

Matt, I think we talked about this before on the phone months ago when I was really getting started. My first appointments never become clients (except for once in my life, which was refreshing); I run my sales process like:

1st appointment: build rapport, credibility, ask questions about their needs, goals, desires, expectations of me, etc. Then I go into the statements and fact finder they brought and give very basic advice and generally directions they can go in. I then book the next appointment at that time.
2nd appointment: Go over concerns and discussion from last time. I will usually have prepared a basic (very basic) proposal for them and give them more information about how I can accomplish their needs, and also share stories on how my other clients have made the right decision in working with me. I will then offer to have them make me the advisor on their accounts - I explain that I need them to open an account and fill out an ACAT form to rollover their assets so I can advise them on it. If they really hesitate, I pull back and offer to have them rollover a portion of their money and "try me out."
3rd appointment: I go over a proposal for a financial plan/portfolio that will address the issues and concerns they shared with me earlier, and also have them sign the subscription documents to purchase securities, annuities, insurance, etc. within their account with me to get started.
4th appointment: I will usually have dinner with the client or a drink and go over their portfolio again after investment confirmations come in, and also "lock it in" by reassuring them of the benefits that came with their decision to embrace change.
Ongoing service: I will call them from time to time, usually once every few months, to check up on them, mail newsletters out, and invite them to quarterly client appreciation events/referral drives.

My entire process gets screwed up during appointment 2 or 3 when the prospects refuse to rollover any money so I can start my work. I remind them I cannot give them financial planning and advice if my hands are tied, and also I feel uncomfortable giving them heavy/serious professional advice on their other accounts when they won't name me as advisor. (or, if they're in CDs, they state they're happy where they are and don't want to make any changes. This doens't make sense because I always shut down CDs using an OMFN study in the beginning of our first meeting, proving that CDs earn negative returns). This explanation works, sometimes it doesn't. *OR*, they say they have to think about it, and will call me when they're ready. I feel uncomfortable with accepting this objection because they never do call back and just procrastinate into the grave. ** I notice that my "A" prospects who are ready to do business, either small or large, already have a financial need or fear on the table when they meet with me. A majority of the prospects I've met with lately, either in brokerage accounts or CDs, don't care either way - they have concerns, but these concerns are not enough to motivate action. Most of my latest prospects, after I point out their tax liability with nonqual CDs or market risks in being 90% allocated to equity funds, really respond with a shrug and a giggle and say "oh well." (!!!!)

About my seminar frequency: I know the "top producers" in my broker dealer really work the numbers and do 8 seminars a month. For the record, I do two seminars a month now, and scheduled to do 4 next month. I would like to get up to 8, but don't have the money (though I can take out a loan to get up to this frequency, so it's an option). You think that my prospecting issue is more related to the "numbers game" or does it come back to my target market + my closing technique (or lack thereof).

[healthagent]

Originally Posted by BiggitySwat

I understand. And I also understand that people need to be educated about an illiquid bank CD making negative real returns after taxes and inflation, and also that many banks have fallen and will continue to fall, putting that shiny FDIC insured sticker to the test.

It's not just the CD folks that I find are scared, it's also folks with wirehouses/stockbrokers and in aggressive mutual funds! To them, a change from their familiar fund families and "asset allocation" into something different scares them to death and paralyzes them.

Point being - folks like your parents obviously have an agenda for their money and may not want to make a change, even if that is a positive change. But how does this situation help me in trying to grow a business and enjoy my job more via my seminars Most importantly, their perceptions of trust are out of my control, how exactly do you change these perceptions?

Edit/PS: I have found it easier to sell insurance (life and LTC) in this climate than before, but the reason why I am hesitant to shift to more product sales versus service sales is that I enjoy portfolio design and implementation more than selling insurance products as my core offering.

For my parents it's about capital preservation and being able to sleep at night. I don't think my dad gives a **** if his net return after inflation is -1% - he wants to wake up and know his money is there. The state guarantee corp does NOT offer the same protections as the FDIC...unless we want another 15 page thread on that subject.

[BiggitySwat]

Originally Posted by healthagent

For my parents it's about capital preservation and being able to sleep at night. I don't think my dad gives a **** if his net return after inflation is -1% - he wants to wake up and know his money is there. The state guarantee corp does NOT offer the same protections as the FDIC...unless we want another 15 page thread on that subject.

Understandable. Many of my prospects seem to feel the same way. But if they feel that way, I am wondering what drives folks like that to my events *AND* book multiple appointments with me, when they know I'm not a banker (though I used to work for two banks), but a planner that uses annuities and securities? (This is outlined in my seminar brochure that virtually everyone reads over while waiting for the event to begin).

I know these folks aren't platelickers, and they do care about capital preservation. But why hear an advisor out when the intention is just to keep doing what you're doing anyway....and from an advisor's point of view, how do you identify prospects at seminars who are ready, willing, and able to embrace positive change. This is the core of my concerns right now because I can't keep doing something that's not working, even if I'm having fun - it's the definition of insanity.

PS/EDIT - Not to turn this into a political discussion, but after getting to know my current clients, their referrals, and many of the prospects to come through my door, 90% of them voted for Barrack Obama. When I ask why (in a polite, curious way), they always mention that they felt we needed to embrace change. Change you can believe in. Well hell, if the prospects voted for change in our government why not change $25K of your 100K Bank CD portfolio and try out an FIA or nontraded, corporate backed REIT?

[annuityseller]

Here's a thought!! Rule of 100?? anyone heard of it?? Why have all the stock jockeys got seniors at 80 or 90% equities??where's the safe money??I've seen it over and over and over on brokage statements(some times in the millions)I see people on TV saying they lost their shirt at 75 ?? Where are the complaince people??I had a retired minister say to me when I looked over his trust account (balance 1.5 million) oh last year it was 3 million.These people lost 1.5 million and the broker did nothing, I tried to get them to take action and the couple wouldn't because they's been with this brokerage house when the wife's father was the owner.and this loss was before this last down turn!!!!!!!! loyalty for some one that lost you millions???????????and he's even half a country away??

[indaville]

Originally Posted by BiggitySwat

My entire process gets screwed up during appointment 2 or 3 when the prospects refuse to rollover any money so I can start my work.

Do you know your ratios? How many come in for the 2nd appt, how many become clients, etc. Usually 1/3 of prospects go down the planning trail, 1/3 go for a single sale, and 1/3 should go in the garbage pail.

You think that my prospecting issue is more related to the "numbers game" or does it come back to my target market + my closing technique (or lack thereof).

Could be all of the above. Knowing your ratios would really help, you do track them right? Running large numbers helps. Just today I had 6 first appts. Two of them were prospects like you are dealing with, 1 had CD's and would not budge, 1 had a stock broker who they still like after a 35% decline last year. Do I care about the two that got away, no. I was able to help 4 people today that needed AND wanted my help. If I only had 2 appts and I did not help either it would not have been a good, but b/c my activity is where it needs to be I had a good day.

Matt

[BiggitySwat]

Originally Posted by indaville

Could be all of the above. Knowing your ratios would really help, you do track them right? Running large numbers helps. Just today I had 6 first appts. Two of them were prospects like you are dealing with, 1 had CD's and would not budge, 1 had a stock broker who they still like after a 35% decline last year. Do I care about the two that got away, no. I was able to help 4 people today that needed AND wanted my help. If I only had 2 appts and I did not help either it would not have been a good, but b/c my activity is where it needs to be I had a good day.

Matt

Thanks, Matt. I have rough numbers as far, but not tracked down to the bone. FYI I just tried calling your office line, but it seems you've left for the day
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Originally Posted by annuityseller

Here's a thought!! Rule of 100?? anyone heard of it?? Why have all the stock jockeys got seniors at 80 or 90% equities??where's the safe money??I've seen it over and over and over on brokage statements(some times in the millions)I see people on TV saying they lost their shirt at 75 ?? Where are the complaince people??I had a retired minister say to me when I looked over his trust account (balance 1.5 million) oh last year it was 3 million.These people lost 1.5 million and the broker did nothing, I tried to get them to take action and the couple wouldn't because they's been with this brokerage house when the wife's father was the owner.and this loss was before this last down turn!!!!!!!! loyalty for some one that lost you millions???????????and he's even half a country away??

I think it's just the fact that there is ignorance out there on both the consumer and advisor end. I have seen financial advisors from wirehouses (we call them stockbrokers/mutual fund salesmen) twice my age and with twice the experience who have seniors in stuff like 90% international growth equities. These portfolios bombed hard, sending their clients into a panic, and the best thing they can say is "stay in, stay in, stay the course, don't panic."

I really do feel that relationships are 99% in this industry and actual performance/numbers is 1%. Unfortunately I'm better at portfolio design and putting clients into awesome setups than being the calming voice in the storm