Insurance Agent Forum

[Dave020]

Nov. 9: Washington - Inclusion of a provision in the Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962) allowing insurance agents to sell health policies offered by health insurance exchanges is positive, but other issues remain to be addressed in the Senate, according to the National Association of Professional Insurance Agents (PIA).

The language that guarantees agent participation, added at the insistence of Blue Dog Democrats including former PIA member Rep. Charlie Melancon (D-La.), was included in the final version of H.R. 3962 that passed 220-215 in the House on November 7.

"The inclusion of this provision assures that no matter what, consumers will continue to be able to rely on their local professional insurance agent to help them navigate the maze of choices available, both inside and outside these proposed health insurance exchanges,” said PIA National President Jon D. Spalding. “This provision needs to be preserved in the Senate.”

PIA believes that other elements included in the House bill will have to be fixed or removed in the Senate."

"We remain concerned with language added under a subsection entitled ‘Assistance for Small Employers’ that designates the Small Business Administration (SBA) to design what is, in essence, a government-run insurance agency for small businesses,” said PIA Director of Federal Affairs Mike Becker. “In the House bill, SBA is required to provide educational activities to small businesses, along with distribution of information and ‘enrollment and plan selection assistance for employers’ for health plans available under the Health Insurance Exchange."

"In short, the SBA would be required to perform the functions of an insurance agency or brokerage for small groups of under 100,” Becker said. “PIA opposes this provision because it is unnecessary and it has the federal government set up insurance brokerages in competition with the private sector.

Professional, independent insurance agents and brokers already perform all of the services for consumers that the bill would require the SBA to provide. The SBA provision is unnecessary, duplicative and creates needless federal expenditures."

PIA National has joined with a coalition of property/casualty insurers, agents, brokers, and reinsurers to express concern with antitrust provisions included in H.R. 3962. The proposed repeal of the McCarran-Ferguson limited antitrust exemption for health and medical malpractice insurance would disrupt the industry’s business environment and create substantial legal uncertainty and unnecessary litigation. In addition, a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) analysis determined that modifying the federal antitrust exemption for health and medical malpractice insurers “will have no significant effect” on premiums charged for private health insurance.

The antitrust provisions included in H.R. 3962 would have no benefit on health insurance premiums, as the CBO reports, but would spur frivolous litigation,” Becker said. “No good would come as a result of these provisions, only more costs and more litigation. We recommend the Senate address these concerns by removing the antitrust provisions from their version of the bill.”

As passed, H.R. 3962 would also permit the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) to prepare studies and reports on the entire insurance industry, including property and casualty. PIA said such a broad grant of authority has no place in a bill addressing health insurance.

"Our healthcare system needs improvement – it costs too much for the quality it delivers, too many people cannot afford coverage, if they can find it, and they can lose it for getting sick,” Spalding said. “Congress will probably pass something that will be called healthcare reform. The challenge is to build on the private system in a way that doesn’t bankrupt Main Street, USA. It is up to us to continue to lead the way for our lawmakers.”

[Winter]

Sounds like the the agents can have a shot at whatever dregs are left over after the government enrollers and recommenders have had first shot at everyone both in the group and individual markets. Fortunately chances of defeating it in current form are excellent. Chances of avoiding some version of reform are nil.

It's nasty. The bill needs to be defeated. If it can't then we need to bypass all the foolishness and just move to a Canadian system. The Canadian system is not as good as what we have now but it is better than this hodge podge of crap that is being proposed. You can't design a system by just having a bunch of people do a drive by shooting on our current system. Do it right or leave it alone. We are at serious risk/probability of creating a complete and total disaster. Dont say it cant happen. I live in a state that "improved" its health insurance system and the whole thing tanked. Leave it alone or implement several of the key areas where there is consensus, or go Canadian. Note to libs and conservatives,. yes I said Canadian. Dont think it couldnt be worse. It can be and we are well on our way unless it is stopped, which it can be, but the deed must be done.

There is no good news in that bill. Just crap and not so crap.

[ins.dave]

Originally Posted by Dave020

Nov. 9: Washington - Inclusion of a provision in the Affordable Health Care for America Act (H.R. 3962) allowing insurance agents to sell health policies offered by health insurance exchanges is positive,

You state this as if you believe some of what they say?
I think they stated this just to try and minimize the already enormous amount of backlash they have been receiving from middle America, doctors and the insurance industry. They want a huge open ended unclear bill passed that they can "season to taste" once our goose is cooked.
To me the public option and or an exchange is an absolute take over phase out move. Nothing more.
Don't believe that hype.

Noteable today. Spoke with another client who told me her doctor is not happy with the proposals although I don't think she understands why.
I didn't want to go into a rant with her of course.

[Dave020]

It's an article, I did not write it. It's from Insurance Newscast and the e-mail from Word & Brown did not provide a link to the original article or I would have added it.

Winter, the article talks about doing away with the other enrollment entities like SBA and just giving it over to the current marketing channel of agents. That may well be a sticking point in the Senate, as will be the public option itself. This is a "working" version still up for refinement in the Senate then back to the house.

While I understand to a degree misgivings, realize that reform is coming, no matter what it is coming. I'd prefer to have a place in it and it seems like quite a bit has been done to keep that in the equation.

[TXINSURANCE]

The way I read the bill - IF there was enough meat left on the bones (commissions) , we would be extremely busy. Those who are setup for volume will make buckets and buckets of money. Those who sell 1 policy a week, will get a job or sell something else.

On the positive side - you will be getting commission on UNINSURABLE people you currently get $0 on. You will also likely be getting commission on HIGHER premium with NO underwriting.

You may even get commission off of the government plan, the way I read the bill - but who knows.

Tons of if's and unknowns. Anyone's guess at this point who knows.

[ticker_shuffle]

I was just pondering this issue. If there is interest in the public health option and it's available for agents to sell, I'll be there. Where can I find details of the bill so I might learn more about the sited legislation?

[mikel]

The commission on a guaranteed issue will be low and there will probably be a ton of service work that goes with it. Much like part D is.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by Dave020

It's an article, I did not write it. It's from Insurance Newscast and the e-mail from Word & Brown did not provide a link to the original article or I would have added it.

Winter, the article talks about doing away with the other enrollment entities like SBA and just giving it over to the current marketing channel of agents. That may well be a sticking point in the Senate, as will be the public option itself. This is a "working" version still up for refinement in the Senate then back to the house.

While I understand to a degree misgivings, realize that reform is coming, no matter what it is coming. I'd prefer to have a place in it and it seems like quite a bit has been done to keep that in the equation.

The fact that reform is needed and reform is coming is beyond discusson. I think at this point we can count the number of years that I have said that when everyone said it will blow over, hillarycare died, and this will die, everyone will wake up and realize that guaranteed issue has not worked, blah, blah, blah. So hopefully we can put that piece to rest. Reform is coming, guaranteed issue is coming, interstate sales are coming on so on and so off. I can't even remember back to a time when I did not believe that.

Neverthess, I am focused on getting this bill killed. It's nothing but a goddam driveby shooting of our current system and will cause the entire system to tank. I can agree that a person or a system needs treatment but not necessarily agree that every clown with a butcher knife or some wish list needs to be unloaded on to a system to fix it and then wonder what the price tag will be. As far as what I would do, I have outlined that in detail ad nauseam so if there are any libs here who complain that there are no alternatives being proposed, they can put a lid on it.

This bill will not pass in the Senate as is and there is no way on earth that it can pass this year- period. Do the math. It can't be done. That is where my focus is right now. Undoubtedly Al and libs will churn into the "well you dont want reform and you say it is not coming, blah, blah." Complete waste of time. What I am saying is that we need a stripped down bill that only enacts those areas where there is consensus between dems and repubs such as guaranteed issue and interstate, and subsidy/credit etc. - and remove all the 2000 page intended to restructure, redistribute, and rebuild society into a socialist state.

Killing this bill is very doable and a prerequisite to getting everything back on a better plane. There is a lot of hunting and gathering going on to identify little goodies or problems in this bill. It is just not a process that I warm up to at this point. It is clear that the bill needs to be killed and it is clear that a bloodbath is coming and we need to get on with it in order to get on with the phase that follows it.

The language about the role of agents can say whatever it wants just as we can arrange the deck chairs on the Tiitanic in all sorts of ways. There is a lot of language in there that pretends to preserve the free market but the entire thrust of the bill and the Obama Administration is toward a government takeover.

I loved the irony in that piece about the Small Business Administration becoming the enrollers and recommenders. WTF! The SBA's mission is to preserve and enhance the role of small businesses and the free market economy. So they propose to eliminate the role of private sector agents in working with small businesses and have the SBA do it! Maybe in the end they can put some language in about agents being able to participate somewhere along the way but it does not help me a bit.because I SEE THEIR GIG AND THEIR GIG NEEDS TO BE STOPPED. This not just about health care reform . It is also a power-grab for one sixth of the American economy.

There will be no bill this year- period. That's a start. Then it needs to be busted down enough so that the dems fear that if they dont keep it down to just the core they will get nothing. Very doable. Next year will be about health care reform if you talk to politicans. However, it will be about the economy if you talk to voters. And as discussed, when reform discussions are at their peak, California will tank and add to peoples fears that an over-reaching health plan will take us there nationally. Now along comes NY as another example so we are right on track. I would take a chapter out of Rahm Emmanuals book and make sure the economic crisis does not go wasted when it comes to turning the libs burner down.

Change you can believe in.

[ins.dave]

Originally Posted by Winter

The language about the role of agents can say whatever it wants just as we can arrange the deck chairs on the Tiitanic in all sorts of ways. There is a lot of language in there that pretends to preserve the free market but the entire thrust of the bill and the Obama Administration is toward a government takeover.

This not just about health care reform . It is also a power-grab for one sixth of the American economy.

My point exactly.
I think you guys have a serious case of wishful thinking on this. Kinda makes me want to gag when I hear agents talk about "their place in this once reform comes ..." No offense, but why not go out on the front lawn and grab your ankles?
There is going to be a take over or there isn't.
If so, no health insurance companies or agents. Just more govt. employees.
Please stop saying the word "reform" because there has been no attempt, nor will there be any with this admin. to "reform."
Let's get real? Where did I read in the latest draft about there being no significant cost issue because of malpractice insurance? Right. A gyno has got to shell out $250,000 in order to be able to practice and not lose his ass? Between 2003 and 2004, Dade County in Florida, which includes the city of Miami, went from $249,000 to $277,000, an increase of about 11 percent.
Forget the other cost factors for a moment. Does one person here believe that? One?

If there is GI, take over mission accomplished. Govt. exchange, it's over.
Finishing on a more "positive" note, for the life of me I cannot see it.
"Reform" ala mandate, tort, interstate, border security is do able,and a good idea, but removing private insurance carriers / products,employer based coverage, combining the medically underwritten market with the non is to me not do able.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I have received nothing but resistance to "reform" (as currently defined by 3962) from many clients over a large area of the U.S.
Perhaps I am now being wishful as I state this, but I cannot see it going through. "It" defined as GI, exchange,public option.
Again, more "wishful thinking" granted, but my gut says they are way over reaching and the public, i.e. the majority of Americans and the medical community ain't have'n it.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by ins.dave

but I cannot see it going through. "It" defined as GI, exchange,public option.
.

Oh the GI piece is coming. You can take that one to the bank. At least for subsidized/credit-eligible plans.

[ins.dave]

Originally Posted by Winter

Oh the GI piece is coming. You can take that one to the bank. At least for subsidized/credit-eligible plans.

Are you saying that there will be no more underwritten plans offered?

They should help out the gimps with no other options, but to combine both markets would be a mistake. Besides the large rate increases for healthy people which would not exactly go over gang busters, they have to take in human nature. Often, people will only do what is in their best interests healthwise when there is a dollar amount built into it.
One lady client comes to mind where, first her husband and then she quit smoking as after a few renewal periods into the game, it became cost prohibitive for them to not do so.
Forget about the fact that smoking is suspected to cause health issues ...

[Winter]

Originally Posted by ins.dave

Are you saying that there will be no more underwritten plans offered?

...

Nope. Didn't say that at all. I said there will be a system of government-approved creditable plans that qualify for subsidy or tax credit because they include the elements that the government wants to see in a plan. One of those elements will be guaranteed issue. Thus if you want to get in on the government freebies or get a tax credit for your plan you are enrolled in a guaranteed issue plan. Go figure what that does to the market.

The issue of whether there will still be fully underwritten plans available somewhere is an open question because it hinges on the question of mandate and whether other plans will satisfy the mandate requirement. That part is unsettled as is the overarching question of mandate. If there is no mandate involved then some folks will still find it more affordable to just skip the government subsidy/credit and get an underwritten but high deductible plan. Right now, the administration intends to keep you from doing that by having mandate and also telling you that a high deductible plan does not meet the mandate. Quite likely that scenario will fall apart along the way. Some of this they are going to make up as they go along anyway. If they offer government bennies to be in the creditable plan and that gets most people into the plan they want you to "choose" then they may leave some alternative type of plans out there on the market. However if the alternative plans are taking away from their desired level of participation in the approved plans, they will simply tighten up and close that loop.

Even if they dont know it yet they would actually prefer to have a couple oddball plans floating around out there so they can pretend that their system did not completely kill choice and the free market. Not sure they are that far along in their thinking yet though.

My guess is that mandate will not fly in the bill in the first year and the dems will smarten up and see that they can just add it in following years or see whether the overall levels of coverage still go up or down without it and then make the case from there. Guaranteed issue/ no underwriting...........err.....different story.......thats coming for the mainstream individual and group markets and it is coming in phase one. Of course Phase One might not be implemented for a few years but that's another matter. You see that I think of this in terms of phases. Trust me that is where the dems will be about February too. They are going to have to lock in their gains but live to fight for another day. Something that Senator Chappaquiddick would have helped them to understand. Bubba is trying to do it right as we speak but Bubba is just Bubba and who cares about Bubba anymore. Just some California libs who are already over in Che Gueveraville already.

Also, I am assuming public option is not coming in phase one but will be subject to trigger but that is just analysis on my part. In my own mind though, I have been beyond analyzing whether guaranteed issue is coming or not for about 4-5 years so you have to consider my bias here. That stake is in the ground all the way around regardless of which bill does or does not pass.

Change you can believe in.

[ins.dave]

Originally Posted by Winter

Nope. Didn't say that at all. I said there will be a system of government-approved creditable plans that qualify for subsidy or tax credit because they include the elements that the government wants to see in a plan. One of those elements will be guaranteed issue. Thus if you want to get in on the government freebies or get a tax credit for your plan you are enrolled in a guaranteed issue plan. Go figure what that does to the market.

The issue of whether there will still be fully underwritten plans available somewhere is an open question because it hinges on the question of mandate and whether other plans will satisfy the mandate requirement. That part is unsettled as is the overarching question of mandate. If there is no mandate involved then some folks will still find it more affordable to just skip the government subsidy/credit and get an underwritten but high deductible plan. Right now, the administration intends to keep you from doing that by having mandate and also telling you that a high deductible plan does not meet the mandate. Quite likely that scenario will fall apart along the way. Some of this they are going to make up as they go along anyway. If they offer government bennies to be in the creditable plan and that gets most people into the plan they want you to "choose" then they may leave some alternative type of plans out there on the market. However if the alternative plans are taking away from their desired level of participation in the approved plans, they will simply tighten up and close that loop.

Even if they dont know it yet they would actually prefer to have a couple oddball plans floating around out there so they can pretend that their system did not completely kill choice and the free market. Not sure they are that far along in their thinking yet though.

My guess is that mandate will not fly in the bill in the first year and the dems will smarten up and see that they can just add it in following years or see whether the overall levels of coverage still go up or down without it and then make the case from there. Guaranteed issue/ no underwriting...........err.....different story.......thats coming for the mainstream individual and group markets and it is coming in phase one. Of course Phase One might not be implemented for a few years but that's another matter. You see that I think of this in terms of phases. Trust me that is where the dems will be about February too. They are going to have to lock in their gains but live to fight for another day. Something that Senator Chappaquiddick would have helped them to understand. Bubba is trying to do it right as we speak but Bubba is just Bubba and who cares about Bubba anymore. Just some California libs who are already over in Che Gueveraville already.

Also, I am assuming public option is not coming in phase one but will be subject to trigger but that is just my analysis on my part. In my own mind though, I have been beyond analyzing whether guaranteed issue is coming or not for about 4-5 years so you have to consider my bias here. That stake is in the ground all the way around regardless of which bill does or does not pass.

Change you can believe in.

I don't doubt any of that.
Time is their enemy.
No news is good news for us I believe.
Big money is real patient. Ins. companies can play the waiting game for a long time.
Kid Kenyan can not. Turkeys won’t be the only things getting stuffed come the end of November.
To be a fly on the wall …
The fact (if there is any such word anymore) of the matter is that “reform” ala 3962 is destructive and nonreform based.
As time goes by, the American public, by their doctor’s (who to them of course are living gods) are getting educated as to rationing, availability, early retirement, etc.
It’s a hyperbolic situation where no one believes anybody. If you or I try to explain this to a client it is basically Charlie Brown and his homeroom teacher.
They aren’t going to believe a word that comes out of our mouths because we are just thinking about our jobs or “six figure incomes,” as it were.
Same with insurance companies. People have been trying to get the inside skinny from United, BC, Humana, etc. for months now. Even if their employees did know something, you can bet the ranch that “zip lock mouths” are the order of the day. Look at the low profile these companies have maintained, keeping silent except for when the P. option issue was being pushed. They, like us, know that they would be p*ssing in the wind.
Oh, but doctor’s however, different story. They are the one party involved in this that will be listened to. Ironic, to me that usually, unless they are a client of course, that they can be a difficult link in the acquisition of new business chain of events with their A.P.S. letters, etc. For once, except maybe for the soon to be med. school graduates or the not so great English speaking, H.M.O. physicians, we are on the same team.
I think history will show that BO and buddies tried to do to much too quick. Haste makes waste. Again reform, if implemented one piece at a time,had a shot, but a hostile take over contains too many conflicting, unclear elements to get through the legislative process. [insert your own analogy here?] Kind of like a fire drill in a way. We are taught to calmly exit the building single file. Otherwise, everybody runs for the door at once and in doing the exit gets blocked and said drill is unsuccessful.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by ins.dave

I think history will show that BO and buddies tried to do to much too quick. Haste makes waste.

History will show that some reform is needed to head off a total takeover. Republicans do not buy that philosophy, hence their venomous view toward Olympia. However they will come around and Obama will come around too, about February or March.

Republicans have played right into the dems hands by allowing a situation to develop where if you support any reform at all you have to go with a dem plan, because they dont have one. The closest thing that the repubs have to a plan now is having John Boner puff on his cigarettes and have a few scotches while Harry Reid is having a press conference and after that he comes out and belches at the reporters for three minutes. That is not much.

The only leadership that the repubs have on this issue now comes from two people that are either marginally in the party or not at all: Olympia and Joe Lieberman. I guess that is their fault, eh, because nature abhors a vaccum. Smarten up repubs, along with the dems. We are trying to build a better Republic and going to your room and sulking is not a strategy.

[ticker_shuffle]

Originally Posted by Winter

History will show that some reform is needed to head off a total takeover. Republicans do not buy that philosophy, hence their venomous view toward Olympia. However they will come around and Obama will come around too, about February or March.

Republicans have played right into the dems hands by allowing a situation to develop where if you support any reform at all you have to go with a dem plan, because they dont have one. The closest thing that the repubs have to a plan now is having John Boner puff on his cigarettes and have a few scotches while Harry Reid is having a press conference and after that he comes out and belches at the reporters for three minutes. That is not much.

The only leadership that the repubs have on this issue now comes from two people that are either marginally in the party or not at all: Olympia and Joe Lieberman. I guess that is their fault, eh, because nature abhors a vaccum. Smarten up repubs, along with the dems. We are trying to build a better Republic and going to your room and sulking is not a strategy.

That's some funny stuff!!

[ins.dave]

Originally Posted by Winter

History will show that some reform is needed to head off a total takeover. Republicans do not buy that philosophy, hence their venomous view toward Olympia. However they will come around and Obama will come around too, about February or March.

Republicans have played right into the dems hands by allowing a situation to develop where if you support any reform at all you have to go with a dem plan, because they dont have one. The closest thing that the repubs have to a plan now is having John Boner puff on his cigarettes and have a few scotches while Harry Reid is having a press conference and after that he comes out and belches at the reporters for three minutes. That is not much.

The only leadership that the repubs have on this issue now comes from two people that are either marginally in the party or not at all: Olympia and Joe Lieberman. I guess that is their fault, eh, because nature abhors a vaccum. Smarten up repubs, along with the dems. We are trying to build a better Republic and going to your room and sulking is not a strategy.

Actually secure and control the borders against continued invasion and allow the undocumented the right to work here legally as well as the ability to buy coverage.
Enforce a mandate to those that can afford it. And finally tort reform.
There you go. The repub alternative.

You tell'n me that wouldn’t cut costs?
You tell’n me that middle America wouldn’t get behind that?

You’re right. They better figure out which way they are going to lose less money / constituents. This plan or sitting back and offering nothing.
Of course you are going to lose all that cheap labor but ...

Better pick the lesser of the
two evils boys cause y’all going to have to give some where.
Probably ain’t going to just go away.

They could come out like heroes if they had the stones to do it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Originally Posted by ticker_shuffle

That's some funny stuff!!

What's funny is you and the flukemeister thinking that there is gonna be a piece for you if'n Kenyan and the gang get their way.
Unless of course you go to work for the govt? How is your Spanish?
Hey, at least you'll have good benes?

[0b1kanobee]

So are we screwed or not? That is all I want to know.............

[YouGotMyMoney]

No one knows yet.

[TXINSURANCE]

Are you saying that there will be no more underwritten plans offered?

If ANYTHING passes , this is correct - no more underwriting. Carriers will fold real fast as their is no pre ex waits for previously uninsured either.

[Dave020]

Originally Posted by ins.dave

What's funny is you and the flukemeister thinking that there is gonna be a piece for you if'n Kenyan and the gang get their way.
Unless of course you go to work for the govt? How is your Spanish?
Hey, at least you'll have good benes?

I'm fairly familiar with government work and the "benes" are not bad.