Read this and tell me you still want to sell for this company.
For some reason I can not get the attachment uploaded.
I have read it. I also can't get it to upload - pay to agents: proposal of $338 1st year/half renewal years.
The way it is written, "Under the Bus" is by far an understatement.
------------------------------------
Joe Moore
National Senior Benefits
Asurco Insurance Marketing www.finalexpenseagents.comwww.shenagents.com
PO Box 1954, Morristown, TN 37816
1-800-226-1004, 1-423-581-1004
They are too heavy in the captive market to worry about brokers selling for them.
------------------------------------
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." Ronald Reagan
They have taken Rick's idea of a %. They have modified it from Rick's 17%, my proposal for TN agents of 10%, and lowered it to 4%.
I am sure WellCare Pro would do the same but if anyone wants an emailed copy, contact me at joe@asurco.com and I will be glad to send a copy.
Here is a link that anyone can comment on the thoughts on this subject: Regulations.gov
Here is what I posted, if anyone needs any ideas:
I am noticing, with much interest, your problem with the commission
structure insurance companies have settled on after receiving guidance
from CMS, in paying commissions on Medicare Advantage Plans.
We operate an insurance marketing organization with hundreds of contracted
agents. May I add, these are mostly professional insurance agents that
take much pride in dealing with their clients in their chosen career? They
are really at the bottom-of-the-chain when it comes to dealing with these
plans, but without them very little gets done.
Most insurance companies realize without sales, they do not need ANY home
office employees. Most insurance companies realize that it is very hard to
find anyone experienced, honest and knowledgeable to represent them with
these very confusing and ever-changing plans. I feel this is why they
decided the professional agent is the cog that makes the wheels turn in
offering their product to the public. Due to new CMS rules, we have been
told by many good agents they are leaving the Medicare Advantage Industry.
I do not see how a pay-cut to agents is going to save the government
ANY money, or protect the public from predator agents. In regard to record
profits by insurance companies, it appears one of the main concerns should
be the cutting of the benefits by companies instead of what they are
paying their employees or independent contractors. If agents are not
allowed to make a reasonable living, more agents will leave the industry
and the money will go to more advertising, infomercials or further add to
the bottom lines. This may be the only industry nation where big-brother
is trying to dictate a salesperson's earnings.
Realizing your goal is to deter "churning" just to earn a new first year
commission by an agent. I agree completely churning does need to be done.
But, a pay-cut to agents will not accomplish this goal Just last week we
had a 3 people come into our office wondering if they needed to change
plans in 2009; our advice was and will continue to be, if it is working
and your benefits are basically staying the same, it doesn't need fixing.
There is much more to this business than earning a new commission by an
agent.
Straight from the Medicare & You 2009 Handbook:
"Your health, finances, or coverage may have changed in the last year.
Look at the cost, coverage, quality, and convenience your current Medicare
health or prescription drug coverage will offer in 2009, and compare it
with other available coverage options to see if there's a better choice
for you."
The above statement says to me that Medicare acknowledges that sometimes
people need to change, due to their circumstances changing OR the changes
in their plans.
Many persons enrolled in these plans do not have a clue HOW to compare
these plans. This is where the professional insurance agent's expertise is
very valuable. When a sale is made, a professional agent usually has to
service this client for the years, thus the professional insurance agent
earns his pay. This is not normally a sign-them-and-forget-them sale.
We sometimes have to service some of the clients every couple of months,
counciling them on "deductibles", "donut holes", "generics vs. name brands,
why they are having to pay 100% of their cost of drugs while still paying an
insurance premium (try to explain that to a broke senior), and a multitude of other
inquiries that we have no income for.
I am a 21+ year veteran of the insurance industry, specializing in the senior
market, a former County Chairman of the Democratic Party, a former political
candidate, am very-very consumer oriented, feel I am fiscally conservative
and much in favor of less government and government spending.
But I also realize the problems I see when a professional insurance agent
is not recognized for their true value, the person making it happen for the
companies and Medicare in marketing these plans. The move that seemingly is
about to take place will not save our government one cent, nor will it protect the
public in any way.
Contrary to popular belief, most of these agents are not the bottom-feeders,
but are trying to honestly make their living servicing their clients as a
professional in the insurance industry.
It should be a surprise to any agent that the captive companies, namely Humana and Pyramid, have been driving this whole mess. They have played CMS as the heavy and maybe they wish they had not kicked the sleeping dog, but, make no mistake, the captive companies have been behind this stuff from day one.
Last year, Humana was the main push behind stopping the LCOEP.
I wouldn't write for Humana before this. I can't see why anyone would get in bed with them now.
Read this and tell me you still want to sell for this company.
For some reason I can not get the attachment uploaded.
Wellcare FMO, I am wondering what you are talking about or where to find it.
I am not happy with WELLCARE at this time either. I am not able to access the WellcarePro site this morning because they say I need to do my testing and contract for 09. I did an application for a 11/1 effective date and now don't have access to the site even though I have done my testing and even had to send an email to Wellcare about an incorrect answer.
Wellcare FMO, I am wondering what you are talking about or where to find it.
I am not happy with WELLCARE at this time either. I am not able to access the WellcarePro site this morning because they say I need to do my testing and contract for 09. I did an application for a 11/1 effective date and now don't have access to the site even though I have done my testing and even had to send an email to Wellcare about an incorrect answer.
My blood pressure is rising everyday
I got that same email from Wellcare this morning even though I have already re-certified and had a new background check. When I went to the Wellcarepro site, it wouldn't let me log in until I finished the credentialing. There was a link in the message at the site. I went to that and had to electronically sign a couple of things. It then showed that I had passed the tests and my background check was in order. It said I should be able to log in "soon". I closed it out and then went right back to the site. It let me log in as usual and tend to business.
I got that same email from Wellcare this morning even though I have already re-certified and had a new background check. When I went to the Wellcarepro site, it wouldn't let me log in until I finished the credentialing. There was a link in the message at the site. I went to that and had to electronically sign a couple of things. It then showed that I had passed the tests and my background check was in order. It said I should be able to log in "soon". I closed it out and then went right back to the site. It let me log in as usual and tend to business.
Thanks, Waking up to an email saying I was suspended with all the BS that is going on got my blood boiling. It would be nice if they would spend a bit more time thinking about sending out emails like they did this morning.
Read this and tell me you still want to sell for this company.
Humana just doesn't want anyone making any money taking them off their awful plans. Plus if commissions are limited they have more money to spend on the commercials that they want to run all the time. They spend more money than any company out there on print and TV ads. Probably spend more money on ads than commission to the agents.
Humana just doesn't want anyone making any money taking them off their awful plans. Plus if commissions are limited they have more money to spend on the commercials that they want to run all the time. They spend more money than any company out there on print and TV ads. Probably spend more money on ads than commission to the agents.
Scott, let me take this one step further... I think we are in a transition phase where carriers will eventually be signing up customers over the net and eliminating the agent except for some minor unreachables.
This has basically already been done with PDPs. Any senior can sign up in a local pharmacy, AND THEY CAN COMPARE PLANS SIDE BY SIDE WHICH WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO.
I see a time coming when the only job left for Medicare agents is to go on appointments to shut-ins with no computer access. Even then, I think CMS will change the rules and allow companies to sign them up in outbound telephone calls.
------------------------------------
To be truly independent, an agent should not be dependent on a government bureaucrat for contracts or commissions.
Joe, great job on the letter; I couldn't have said it better myself. I am one agent who has walked from this.
And they still call.....
Good grief!
Greed is the rise and fall of mankind.
I see it everyday. And I'm really disgusted.
Originally Posted by Joe Moore
They have taken Rick's idea of a %. They have modified it from Rick's 17%, my proposal for TN agents of 10%, and lowered it to 4%.
I am sure WellCare Pro would do the same but if anyone wants an emailed copy, contact me at joe@asurco.com and I will be glad to send a copy.
Here is a link that anyone can comment on the thoughts on this subject: Regulations.gov
Here is what I posted, if anyone needs any ideas:
I am noticing, with much interest, your problem with the commission
structure insurance companies have settled on after receiving guidance
from CMS, in paying commissions on Medicare Advantage Plans.
We operate an insurance marketing organization with hundreds of contracted
agents. May I add, these are mostly professional insurance agents that
take much pride in dealing with their clients in their chosen career? They
are really at the bottom-of-the-chain when it comes to dealing with these
plans, but without them very little gets done.
Most insurance companies realize without sales, they do not need ANY home
office employees. Most insurance companies realize that it is very hard to
find anyone experienced, honest and knowledgeable to represent them with
these very confusing and ever-changing plans. I feel this is why they
decided the professional agent is the cog that makes the wheels turn in
offering their product to the public. Due to new CMS rules, we have been
told by many good agents they are leaving the Medicare Advantage Industry.
I do not see how a pay-cut to agents is going to save the government
ANY money, or protect the public from predator agents. In regard to record
profits by insurance companies, it appears one of the main concerns should
be the cutting of the benefits by companies instead of what they are
paying their employees or independent contractors. If agents are not
allowed to make a reasonable living, more agents will leave the industry
and the money will go to more advertising, infomercials or further add to
the bottom lines. This may be the only industry nation where big-brother
is trying to dictate a salesperson's earnings.
Realizing your goal is to deter "churning" just to earn a new first year
commission by an agent. I agree completely churning does need to be done.
But, a pay-cut to agents will not accomplish this goal Just last week we
had a 3 people come into our office wondering if they needed to change
plans in 2009; our advice was and will continue to be, if it is working
and your benefits are basically staying the same, it doesn't need fixing.
There is much more to this business than earning a new commission by an
agent.
Straight from the Medicare & You 2009 Handbook:
"Your health, finances, or coverage may have changed in the last year.
Look at the cost, coverage, quality, and convenience your current Medicare
health or prescription drug coverage will offer in 2009, and compare it
with other available coverage options to see if there's a better choice
for you."
The above statement says to me that Medicare acknowledges that sometimes
people need to change, due to their circumstances changing OR the changes
in their plans.
Many persons enrolled in these plans do not have a clue HOW to compare
these plans. This is where the professional insurance agent's expertise is
very valuable. When a sale is made, a professional agent usually has to
service this client for the years, thus the professional insurance agent
earns his pay. This is not normally a sign-them-and-forget-them sale.
We sometimes have to service some of the clients every couple of months,
counciling them on "deductibles", "donut holes", "generics vs. name brands,
why they are having to pay 100% of their cost of drugs while still paying an
insurance premium (try to explain that to a broke senior), and a multitude of other
inquiries that we have no income for.
I am a 21+ year veteran of the insurance industry, specializing in the senior
market, a former County Chairman of the Democratic Party, a former political
candidate, am very-very consumer oriented, feel I am fiscally conservative
and much in favor of less government and government spending.
But I also realize the problems I see when a professional insurance agent
is not recognized for their true value, the person making it happen for the
companies and Medicare in marketing these plans. The move that seemingly is
about to take place will not save our government one cent, nor will it protect the
public in any way.
Contrary to popular belief, most of these agents are not the bottom-feeders,
but are trying to honestly make their living servicing their clients as a
professional in the insurance industry.
Humana's O'Toole has let the cat out of the bag: Now it is disclosed that the capitation rate they get is $8450 and up. With the former commissions we were given were set at a street level of $350 shows us that that was about 4%.
I had already calculated the capitation rate close to what O'Toole reported from other industry sources. Now I am confirmed in my results and have a more precise calculation on commission levels.
With this in mind, those who know business math will realize that the commission structure we have been given by FMOs have been proposed from theircompensation point of view. We know that skews the so-called "percentage" that is marketed to us agents. Having total commission sent to them to divide with us, they take the $500(+), cut it down about $200 and send us the rest and tell us we are getting a good deal.
Based on CMS capitation to the carrier, our cut of the pie has been about 4%. FMOs get about 2%. That's about 50% of what we get if you look at our cut from the carrier's compensation point of view. What do they do to earn almost half the same compensation given to us?
If Humana gets their way, they will eliminate the FMO, put the agent under them direct, and save the 2% previously given to the FMO. I think FMOs need to wake up and smell the coffee. They need to establish a good argument for the need for their existence. Give their agents training, sales aids such as mailers, flyers, brochures, etc. and of course, above all.... LEADS! This brings in added sales per agent for the carriers... as it is now, FMOs only recruit to build a commission base through more agents.
And people look with disdain at MLM orgs? .....!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I realize that "Wellcare FMO" may regret having disclosed the Humana document, since we can't log in to his site without a password, and many of us are not his downline.
For this, I thank him. Let me go on to say that, as much as I deride FMOs for their lack of support for independent agents, it does not escape me that he, along with Joe Moore, do frequently contribute to this forum.
This is the premier independent agent forum. That these two FMOs make any contributions I think reveals they are of a different cut from the many others out there, and ought to be recognized for such. My thanks to you on behalf of us all.
If I should ever decide to switch FMOs or contract with another, I would seriously consider them (but don't hold your breath).... in the meantime, criticism for FMOs is due them as much as unprofessional agents. Do your job or expect to be held accountable.... goes to everyone.
Last edited by retread : 11-01-2008 at 10:35 AM.
Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Humana's O'Toole has let the cat out of the bag: Now it is disclosed that the capitation rate they get is $8450 and up. With the former commissions we were given were set at a street level of $350 shows us that that was about 4%.
I had already calculated the capitation rate close to what O'Toole reported from other industry sources. Now I am confirmed in my results and have a more precise calculation on commission levels.
With this in mind, those who know business math will realize that the commission structure we have been given by FMOs have been proposed from theircompensation point of view. We know that skews the so-called "percentage" that is marketed to us agents. Having total commission sent to them to divide with us, they take the $500(+), cut it down about $200 and send us the rest and tell us we are getting a good deal.
Based on CMS capitation to the carrier, our cut of the pie has been about 4%. FMOs get about 2%. That's about 50% of what we get if you look at our cut from the carrier's compensation point of view. What do they do to earn almost half the same compensation given to us?
If Humana gets their way, they will eliminate the FMO, put the agent under them direct, and save the 2% previously given to the FMO. I think FMOs need to wake up and smell the coffee. They need to establish a good argument for the need for their existence. Give their agents training, sales aids such as mailers, flyers, brochures, etc. and of course, above all.... LEADS! This brings in added sales per agent for the carriers... as it is now, FMOs only recruit to build a commission base through more agents.
And people look with disdain at MLM orgs? .....!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I realize that "Wellcare FMO" may regret having disclosed the Humana document, since we can't log in to his site without a password, and many of us are not his downline.
For this, I thank him. Let me go on to say that, as much as I deride FMOs for their lack of support for independent agents, it does not escape me that he, along with Joe Moore, do frequently contribute to this forum.
This is the premier independent agent forum. That these two FMOs make any contributions I think reveals they are of a different cut from the many others out there, and ought to be recognized for such. My thanks to you on behalf of us all.
If I should ever decide to switch FMOs or contract with another, I would seriously consider them (but don't hold your breath).... in the meantime, criticism for FMOs is due them as much as unprofessional agents. Do your job or expect to be held accountable.... goes to everyone.
retread,
Thanks for the acknowledgement that we do not care to discuss this industy. I think I should be willing to discuss whatever is happening in this industry.
However, we have no IMO, FMO, etc. contracts (on any products) where we receive 50% of what the sales agent makes. Most MAPD's are in the $50-$100 range cash-flow to us, which I think is fair. When I saw these figures from this letter, I really was as surprised as you but had decided not to comment on it unless someone else did.
I would be in full agreement with the proposal if the figures had been proposed $438 for the agent and $438 renewals, with $100 going to the FMO for 5 years (or 6, or whatever CMS decides how long we should all be paid).
I sell my share personally, and these figures sure would work for me. I see the situation from the FMO side, and also from the agent side. Contrary to popular belief, IMO's being in the picture increase commissions to agents. If the IMO were not in the picture to bring out competitive commissions, the companies could pay agents whatever they wanted to and make them like it (look at the captive companies).
The professional agent is the cat doing the field work. The agent should be compensated, and paid well for his efforts.
If it weren't for a few bozos with the debit balance problems, being an IMO, FMO would be much fun.
HUMANA may want CMS to pound us with FMO 40/60% Agent splits. But, CMS on October 17th addressed this issue and let's hope they stick to it!
-------------------------------------------- COMPENSATION: OCTOBER 17, 2008
[COLOR="Blue"]CMS does not differentiate between agents, brokers, general agents..., ect. It is the Medicare plan's responsibility to ensure that all their contracted sales staff compensation levels abide by the new MIPPA guidance. [/COLOR]
--------------------------------------------
And besides, why should this process start from the bottom up as HUMANA has requested. All MA carriers should follow a loss ratio percentage. For every dollar that is paid into the carrier, the carrier needs to pay out XX%. Whatever the carriers wants to expend for 1/2 hour infomercials and agents with or without FMO's is not something CMS wants to get involved with. CMS should simply start from the top and the rest will work down. Simply place the commissions at level and let the carriers decide the length of renewal years.
The truth is if you paid us $20 a year you still would have marketing violations. What is needed is some good old fashion enforcement. And some tough love, for HUMANA. CMS should "set it and forget it"! It’s time for some HUMANA slicing and dicing!
All MA carriers should follow a loss ratio percentage. For every dollar that is paid into the carrier, the carrier needs to pay out XX%.
Great idea! That way if CMS says they need to payout 95%, we can wind up with zero commission. And that's not a farfetched idea. If Medicare supposedly is 95% efficient, CMS might say that insurance carriers have to do the same. (I'm making these numbers up because I'm too lazy to actually look them up).
The real problem is not advertising. It's not the FMOs (although many of them are crooks). It's really not even the agents. It's CMS.
Let me say that again. The problem is CMS.
Get rid of lock-in and require commissions to be earned on a monthly basis. Problem solved.
Rick
------------------------------------ ILIAA
Training, Community, Support, and Success Independent Life Insurance Agents Assn rick@iliaa.org
HUMANA throws agents under the bus
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