Birth certs for Cabbage Patch dolls make more sense than our immigration laws. The laws are unwieldy, unenforced and unenforceable, which leads many people in other countries to believe they're like our freeway speed limits -- if nobody stops you, (almost) nobody cares, and there are no consequences. We shouldn't be surprised that there are so many violators.
There should be as much focus on reforming the laws and cutting the unnecessary bureaucracy as there is on enforcing the laws (which seems to be the current conservative mantra). If my German grandfather had been faced with that much red tape, his family would have died in Nazi Germany (if potato famine didn't wipe them out first). It should be more advantageous, and easier, to enter legally than illegally.
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I thought this WAS a real job!
There should be as much focus on reforming the laws and cutting the unnecessary bureaucracy as there is on enforcing the laws (which seems to be the current conservative mantra). If my German grandfather had been faced with that much red tape, his family would have died in Nazi Germany (if potato famine didn't wipe them out first). It should be more advantageous, and easier, to enter legally than illegally.
Back in the day we needed laborers, today we really don't or don't as we once did. Today we need trained people with specific specialities more so then we once did. Things change, while I agree the laws likely too need to be updated but must reflect what we need from immigrants today not yesterday.
There should be as much focus on reforming the laws and cutting the unnecessary bureaucracy as there is on enforcing the laws (which seems to be the current conservative mantra). If my German grandfather had been faced with that much red tape, his family would have died in Nazi Germany (if potato famine didn't wipe them out first). It should be more advantageous, and easier, to enter legally than illegally.
Hmm, I'm not sure I understand your comment. If you don't enforce the laws, then it's always more advantageous and easier to enter illegally than legally. Hence, the very reason people (not just conservatives, but a surprisingly overwhelming majority of Americans) want the laws enforced.
A while back, the democratic leadership in congress tried desperately to label people who were opposed to illegal immigration as 'anti-immigrant'. What they found was that even a large part of their own party was opposed to allowing on going illegal immigration, and wanted enforcement enhanced, and that the general public understood the difference between legal and illegal immigration.
What does any of this have to do with the potato famine?
I would have to agree with JMO on the point that the wait and process for desirable immigration is not good for the Nation as a whole. On the other hand, simple enforcement at the border would stop the flow of illegal immigration, since the vast majority of it is simply swimming across the Rio Grande. I would say, treating the illegal immigration from Mexico as they the Mexicans treat illegal immigration on their Southern Border would end the problem quickly!
My German grandfather (during a German potato famine) was granted a visa to work on his uncle's Iowa farm. He switched trains, went to Detroit, and got a job at General Motors, where he helped design the first Buick LeSabre. It's too hard to judge what an immigrant will add to our country and economy.
"Simple enforcement" at the border is simply impossibly difficult (and expensive). lt's not just roads & rivers, it's deserts and dunes. My son-in-law, an experienced welder from Honduras, was held up for 5+ years by the INS on red tape (because our daughter, his wife, insisted on legal compliance), while his 5 siblings happily worked (illegally) in the US.
It shouldn't be that hard. It should be more attractive to do it legally than illegally. US demographics don't justify keeping anybody out.
Having lived on the border I can tell you that they do try to enforce things but are constantly under budget restrictions and law suits about civil liberties. Not to mention that the Mexican police are the some of the ones taking the illegals across. I was glad that the National Guard started to patrol the border as it controled the Mexican Police not just the immigrants. It is a bad proposition all the way around and I don't think that there is an easy answer. What I do know is that border towns like El Paso take the brunt of it in health care and social services.
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Steph
My job is so secret I don't even know what I'm doing!
"Simple enforcement" at the border is simply impossibly difficult (and expensive). lt's not just roads & rivers, it's deserts and dunes.
No it is not, if we wanted the border closed it would be shut down. While some, very few may still cross but the numbers would be a small fraction of what it is now. Even with what we now have in placed, which isn't much the numbers seem to be falling. Basically, that is what the left and those pro illegal immigration seems to always fall upon, it would just be so hard and expensive? BS, what is expensive is the cost, not only in social services but the drain on wages, "The Real Cost" of illegal immigration is across the entire economy. The cost of enforcement would be minor to the cost we are now paying.
I lived in San Diego. Walk a few extra miles west, and you can walk across the border. You might not be able to pack much, or drive, but it isn't that hard.
I also lived a few years in Vermont. In some places, towns (and neighborhoods) bridge both sides of the Canadian border. It's even easier to walk across there.
Stiffening the border barriers would make it harder, but we would lose more than we would gain. It would do nothing to reduce the number of illegals already living in such places as El Paso & East L.A.
Actually there are fewer illegals right around the border because of the enforcement. They get into the country and head north were there is less enforcement. That is why the check points are several hours drive from the border. Not that there are not alot of illegals in the southwest, but there are less than you would think. What upsets me is when I go into a store and all of the labels are in spanish, the radio is in spanish and I feel like the immigrant.
Hmm, I'm not sure I understand your comment. If you don't enforce the laws, then it's always more advantageous and easier to enter illegally than legally. Hence, the very reason people (not just conservatives, but a surprisingly overwhelming majority of Americans) want the laws enforced.
A while back, the democratic leadership in congress tried desperately to label people who were opposed to illegal immigration as 'anti-immigrant'. What they found was that even a large part of their own party was opposed to allowing on going illegal immigration, and wanted enforcement enhanced, and that the general public understood the difference between legal and illegal immigration.
What does any of this have to do with the potato famine?
Dan
What does any of this have to do with the potato famine? I just tried to create alittle laughter for you guys with the cabbage patch humor. Look where it went.
Stiffening the border barriers would make it harder, but we would lose more than we would gain. It would do nothing to reduce the number of illegals already living in such places as El Paso & East L.A.
The reduction is already happening, and can be increase whenever the people say so. The lost? Yea, we lose the idea of paying enormous social cost and wages decreasing, yea increasing wages, damn bad for business I guess? I mean, Governor Romney will see higher cost too mantain his lawn?
Oops, the horse got out again. So let's buy a new barn door. That way he'll have to come in the back.
A study by the University of California [COLOR=#0000ff]concluded[/COLOR] that undocumented workers use less health care services than citizens and are not a disproportionate burden on the state's health care system.
further,
... [COLOR=#0000ff]recently reported[/COLOR] immigration increases gross domestic product by $37 billion a year. ...[i]mmigrants pay more in taxes than they use in government services, and that the vast majority of immigrants are not eligible to receive public benefits.
Oops, the horse got out again. So let's buy a new barn door. That way he'll have to come in the back.
Further,
What the hell does it mean when it says that illegal immigrants do not use a disproportionate share of health services. If a half million illegal Americans swarmed into the province of New Brunswick, Canada and they equaled half of the population of New Brunswick is everything okay because they do not use more than half the health resources in the province or get anymore care than Canadians. I think most people in the province would say that that one illegal American on the provincial health system was one too many.
The reason that Mexicans end out paying taxes and not getting some benefits is because they are here illegally, duh!
What the hell does it mean when it says that illegal immigrants do not use a disproportionate share of health services. If a half million illegal Americans swarmed into the province of New Brunswick, Canada and they equaled half of the population of New Brunswick is everything okay because they do not use more than half the health resources in the province or get anymore care than Canadians. I think most people in the province would say that that one illegal American on the provincial health system was one too many.
The reason that Mexicans end out paying taxes and not getting some benefits is because they are here illegally, duh!
Winter
The interesting thing is both of those reports are extremely biased in the way they present the data. Saying that illegals visit doctors less and therefore are less of a drain is simply not accurate when looking at the full picture. You need to see who is paying for the visit. Legal immigrants and native citizens probably pay through insurance or pay themselves. Illegals may pay or may use free clinics. I'd really like to see the numbers based on payor, not just total utilization of services.
The other report justifies things simply because illegals make some tax contributions, maybe even 50% pay state and federal taxes. Heck, I'd like to see half of the US legal population exempted from paying taxes
Yes, you can poke holes in any arguement you want to. Bottom line is whether we want to approve illegal immigration or not based on allowing people to enter our country illegally. It doesn't have anything to do with what the costs are.
Look at it this way, the cost of keeping a convenience store robber in jail probably outweighs the cost of allowing him to continue to rob convenience stores. What do you do?
Look at it this way, the cost of keeping a convenience store robber in jail probably outweighs the cost of allowing him to continue to rob convenience stores. What do you do?
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Yeah but it is lucrative to the prison owners. Follow the money.
Cost is significant, and can not be overlooked. Plus, now we have a disproportionate amount of illegals in our jail system, some estimates suggest some States as high as 30%, at yet another enormous cost, not too mention the crime on the community.
A study by the University of California [COLOR=#0000ff]concluded[/COLOR] that undocumented workers use less health care services than citizens and are not a disproportionate burden on the state's health care system.
A group from Berkeley? Yea, that sounds unbiased! I have no doubt they use less then the average Citizen. Here we go, how did they come too these conclusions???
The finding from Alexander Ortega and colleagues at the school was based on a 2003 telephone survey of thousands of California residents, including 1,317 undocumented Mexicans, 2,851 citizens with Mexican immigrant parents, 271 undocumented Latinos from countries other than Mexico and 852 non-Mexican Latinos born in the United States.
Oh yea, telephone surveys, that is very scientific.
Cost is significant, and can not be overlooked. Plus, now we have a disproportionate amount of illegals in our jail system, some estimates suggest some States as high as 30%, at yet another enormous cost, not too mention the crime on the community.
A group from Berkeley?Yea, that sounds unbiased! I have no doubt they use less then the average Citizen. Here we go, how did they come too these conclusions???
Oh yea, telephone surveys, that is very scientific.
Your biases are obvious. Your post is pathetic. Your facts are a joke.
Your English is worse than that of many illegals. For a quiz, see if you can figure out the correct English where I've put your quote in bold type. I even skipped the substandard style spots.
Berkeley may have its political biases, but its mathematicians are among the best in the world. They would never publish, as you did, based upon
Some estimates suggest ... as high as ...
That style is better suited for marketing hype than a statement of statistical fact.
By the way, telephone surveys are the most commonly used, and widely accepted, method of producing a solidly scientific statistical sample.
Berkeley may have its political biases, but its mathematicians are among the best in the world. They would never publish, as you did, based upon That style is better suited for marketing hype than a statement of statistical fact.
[COLOR=red]By the way, telephone surveys are the most commonly used, and widely accepted, method of producing a solidly scientific statistical sample[/COLOR].
Read the color in section and see how stupid you sound.
The finding from Alexander Ortega and colleagues at the school was based on a 2003 telephone survey of thousands of California residents, including 1,317 undocumented Mexicans, 2,851 citizens with Mexican immigrant parents, 271 undocumented Latinos from countries other than Mexico and 852 non-Mexican Latinos born in the United States.
Most people understand telephone surveys, at this time we all are familiar with them. Basically, the idea of public survey as in telephone survey has one or two purposes, to drive an opinion or create news, that is about it. No scientific use to them. As in this case, someone wants to create the idea that illegal immigration is not such a big problem. So they do a survey and basically talk to themselves, hell in this survey I did not see any details of the survey itself, which makes it just that much more a joke or a prank. Maybe its there and I just couldn't manage to read the link? Really don't care, just look at whom they ask!
Illegal Aliens and Prisons, this is such a talked about problem, yet you seem to be out of the loop? Exactly how ignorant are you about these issues? I'm surprise you would even challenged it, since some States are running higher then 30% prisoner population of illegals.
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