Insurance Agent Forum

[Ramond B]

I would first like to introduce my self. My name is Raymond Bartreau. I am the owner of Best Rate Referrals LLC. Over the last 6 years I have been consulting Mortgage Brokers and LOs a like how to generate more business. We also have a telemarketing center in Las Vegas Nevada that we use to generate leads for them. We are looking to get into setting appointments for health insurance agents to go into new businesses and sell their policies.

I am looking for some advice from health agents that actually target new small business. Any advice at all would be great, such as, the best cities to do this wrok in, what is the average price for these types of leads, what are the average closing ratios on this type of marketing with american telemarketers? What are other companies minimums? Etc...

We did do a beta test in Las Vegas with an agent that actually cold called our office one time for insurance. We invited him in and he got our business. It turned a lightbulb on in my head and we ran a test for him. Out of 100 appointments over a 2 month span he wrote policies on 58% of them. Is this a good ratio? I don't know how many policies total he got but he did tell me that he got half individual and half group.

We are about to release these for sell to the open market but before I do I want to make sure I have everything down pat. maybe I can run a beta test for a couple members of this board to see where I can improve the campaign before we release it for sell.

Any help or feed back would be great.

Thanks!

[CHUMPS FROM OXFORD]

All of us can hire someone to call small business owners and generate 2-4 good leads per hour. And there are other methods discussed that have yielded even better results.

If you can sell that type of lead for about $5 each...you might have some business.

Re setting appointments...I have found that I prefer to NOT have an outside party set the appointment for me.

[djs]

Raymond -

Good luck with your adventure. To be honest, there seems to be a rash of individuals starting down this path. Most simply generate leads, sounds like you want to step this up and set appointments.

I do property and casualty insurance, so this isn't a clean answer for you, but I've tried outsourcing appointment setting, paid by the hour, rather than the appointment, and it was a miserable failure. Part of this is my market, which is way over telemarketed (San Francisco Bay Area).

Dan

[Ramond B]

[COLOR=black]Thanks George and Dan for you responses. I know most can hire their own telemarketer to do this but does everyone? As far as generating appointments yeah that is the plan. I figure that the ratio of policies written will be much higher if you are in front of the people. Granted I do this with an American telemarketing center in Nevada so they all speak good English and setting appointments is what they have done in the mortgage business for the last 4 year. With that said do you think it would be an attractive product to health agents?[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]The way I was thinking is that you would have 4-5 appointments sitting on your email every day and you just had to show up and write deals on 3 of those pretty consistently. I know I can get the ratio even higher with a little help from some industry professionals. [/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]I’m willing to beta test if there are a couple members here that feel confident enough to go to the appointments. Dan you seem a little optimistic. How about we send you 10 of them to see how you can do? They will be FREE of course i'm trying to get some feedback so that I can get the best product before I do start selling them.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]Let me know and if anyone out there has tried companies that do this your feedback would be greatly appreciated. I simply don't want to be making mistakes as I dive into this new venture. If you research me you will find that I have done very well for the mortgage industry but I did so by doing research before marketing any products. You can simply google my name Raymond Bartreau. My call center sits empty from 700 am Nevada time to 1230 pm Nevada time and i’m looking to fill it up and run insurance appointments during the day and the mortgage campaign at night.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black]If you have any advice or feedback let me know![/COLOR]

[healthagent]

Let me get this straight - from cold-calling small biz owners this guy wrote 58 policies half of which - or 29 were group policies. 29 group policies in 2 months? There's 50 working days in 2 months which means he closed a new group deal every 1.7 days.

I'm smelling something and it's not the fish my wife's cooking downstairs.

[Melmunch3]

Good thing they all "speak good English"

There are definitely a few telemarketing firms that focus on the insurance industry and do a good job. There are a few that clearly make money and have been around for a long time, so there is definitely room for the business model to work.

However, we see a lot of people fail at this, so be careful. In my opinion, any time you do lead generation, you want to make sure to be in it for the long haul. If you make individual decisions based on your long-term goals, then you will have a better shot at success. If you get a reputation as honest business, with a decent crediting policy and can show a decent ROI then you will make it.

Most of our members are independent agents who work on their own or with just a few people. We have little patience and long memories, so you only get one shot. Your best bet would be to contact middle sized insurance agencies that can afford to buy a lot of leads and give it a long-term shot. Ultimately the model works. If you call x number of people, you get y number at just the right time. It usually gets screwed up by bad business decisions or scaling up too fast.

[Ramond B]

Originally Posted by healthagent

Let me get this straight - from cold-calling small biz owners this guy wrote 58 policies half of which - or 29 were group policies. 29 group policies in 2 months? There's 50 working days in 2 months which means he closed a new group deal every 1.7 days.

I'm smelling something and it's not the fish my wife's cooking downstairs.

Actually let me clarify. It took us two months total to generate the 100 apppointments. The agent gave me a report about 3 weeks after the campaign was done. He also said that he had some more in the works. He never mentioned of being paid on them or how long he had to wait. I have no idea the specifics on his commissions which is one reason why i'm here on this board to learn more. I'm not here promoting this yet. I have along way to go before i even try to release it. Oh yeah and you are right it wasn't exactly half the deals were group he said 26 at the time of his report to me.

Sorry for the confusion.

[Ramond B]

Originally Posted by Melmunch3

Good thing they all "speak good English"

There are definitely a few telemarketing firms that focus on the insurance industry and do a good job. There are a few that clearly make money and have been around for a long time, so there is definitely room for the business model to work.

However, we see a lot of people fail at this, so be careful. In my opinion, any time you do lead generation, you want to make sure to be in it for the long haul. If you make individual decisions based on your long-term goals, then you will have a better shot at success. If you get a reputation as honest business, with a decent crediting policy and can show a decent ROI then you will make it.

Most of our members are independent agents who work on their own or with just a few people. We have little patience and long memories, so you only get one shot. Your best bet would be to contact middle sized insurance agencies that can afford to buy a lot of leads and give it a long-term shot. Ultimately the model works. If you call x number of people, you get y number at just the right time. It usually gets screwed up by bad business decisions or scaling up too fast.

Yes you are right about Americans being better at cold calling into business than some of the overseas outfits. Also you are right on about lead generation and being in it for the long haul. I have been generating mortgage leads for over 5 years for Brokers all over the country. I have seen a ton of companies come and go and you are exactly right, if you treat people good and give them a good ROI every time then being successful at direct marketing can be very fruitful. It has been for me and this will be a pretty good size expansion for me once im all done.

The more I read your post the more I think you know what the heck your talking about. I plan on putting only 3-4 agents on this project when i start. I don't really want to work with a company that buys a ton of leads and I also don't want a ton of companies to do business for. If i can find about 5-6 agents I would be happy.

What are other companies charging? Who are the big players if any? What kind of marketing budgets do agents give themselves? Does it work like mortgage where there is the Broker and then agents under him or her at a certain percentage? I'm sure thats a vague question but any feedback that i can gather will help me put together something really great.

I have already figured out my cost on the appointments it's just a matter of the ROI that can be generated and also finding the industry standard of my competition.

Any more feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[salpro22]

What is the criteria you used to obtain the leads? If I could hire somebody to qualify the appointments like I do I'd be open to paying anywhere from $25- $50 an appointment, but it has to meet my rigid standards. For example, saying "An agent is going to be in your area or Would you like to receive quotes?" is not going to cut it with me......

If you're looking to just generate leads then I'd follow what Chumps said about $5 a lead being a good bench mark. But it all depends on how good your gals are and your script, etc.

[healthagent]

If you're looking to actually set appointments for agents I'm not sure you have any competition. I'm unaware of a single telemarketing company that would give me 5 agents as a reference who are currently using appointment-setting services and happy with what they're getting.

I would have a couple questions since you already ran a small test:

1) How many hours of calling did it take you to generate 100 appointments?
2) What script did you use?

[mmike160]

I know i'm still pretty new to this forum, but i have personally known Ray for a couple of years and a lot of my loan officers use his services on the mortgage end. He's a good guy and knows his stuff with marketing.


Mike in Philly

[Ramond B]

I hear what your saying, thank you for the advice. So basically if I make them really good then they could be worth up to $50 but if they are the standard crap then I would basically be out of luck. Makes sense.

As far our criteria i started with every new business in the Clark County area. At the time of the test There were only about 1100 business that had opened in the last 30 days of that date. Of those 1100 there were only 800 or so with active phone numbers. We then pulled another 2000 numbers of businesses that had been set up with in the last
8 months of that date. Then one more list of 2500 Business contacts that were in business for over 2 years. I wanted to see the difference in the lists and scripts and thankfully since i am a list provider it all comes at cost.

We then pounded the phones with 8 reps to generate what i call a lead. They were literally generating 2-3 of these per hour per rep so I only ran it for an hour and a half at the most per day. Then we took the leads to our verifiers which called them back and verified the appointment date and time and of course gave the name of the agent and his company to the prospective appointment. Out of the 15-18 that they would start with only about 5-6 would make it through to be sent to the agent. I think double verifying each appointment is the best way. This particular agent also did dental so maybe his numbers included any dental plans he got.

Salpro since you seem to have a thorough method Id like to hear what all you would want to know going to your appointment. How would you do it for yourself if you could hire a TM or Two? Any more help would be great!

Thanks a lot and I'm glad this forum is so helpful.

[Ramond B]

Wow, small world hugh, Mike M in PA, hmmmm???? Martin? Nice to see you if it's you and if it's not nice to see you anyhow. lol We are definatly looking to do everything on the insurance side that we have done and are still doing on the mortgage side. I just have to start somewhere. I learned so much form the mortgage forums that I figured I would start on the insurance ones as well. Another one of my old clients told me about this one and Im glad he did because its sure beginning to teach me a lot so far.

Good luck to you my friend and thanks for the shout out. Different world over here and I hope I can help as many people in this field as I am in the other field.

Originally Posted by mmike160

I know i'm still pretty new to this forum, but i have personally known Ray for a couple of years and a lot of my loan officers use his services on the mortgage end. He's a good guy and knows his stuff with marketing.


Mike in Philly

[healthagent]

I like the verification.

I'm trying to establish what your cost would be and see if the model would work.

1 rep generating 2 to 3 leads per hour is right on track - par for the course if you would. If only 6 make it through verification for every 18 generated it's 2/3rds in the circular file.

That would mean 1 qualified appointment set per hour - if you're paying reps $10/hr to telemarket with other expenses there's no way you're selling them for less than $20 per lead. That being said anyone would kill to close 50% of their appointments and if that came to pass $50 per appointment would not be unreasonable.

You have a few problems on this specific board. Very few members do group. Most of us selling health sell individual health and I'd say 95% of this board sells online with 5% meeting with any client.

Closing ratios drop substantially for small biz owners who were telemarketed when you close online as opposed to in person. 50% sounds about right for face to face - more like 1 out of 10 online. You won't get many bites charging anything more than $15 per lead to online agents.

[mmike160]

Hey bro. Yeah it's Mike Martin. I hope stuff is going good for you. I got my insurance license a couple of months back and still writing loans. Shoot me an email with some of your insurance ideas.

Have a good weekend.

Mike

[Ramond B]

My cost was right around $23-25 per lead because I pay my reps good and my verifiers very well. I Had a vision initially of the leads selling between $40-$50 depending on quantity. I'm just curious what the ROI would be initially for the agent on lets say 50% policy per appointment ratio, approx. Also what would the residual be?

I kind of figured the members here would be more inclined for internet generated since its a web forum I was more looking for advice from veterans which you gave me some and I appreciate that greatly. In my honest opinion from what I saw in internet marketing game in the mortgage industry I don't want to even think about the insurance online game. I never got into the internet leads myself because no matter how honest you are as a provider the potential client is shopping on more than one site. This causes saturated leads no matter what you do. I'm assuming its no different in this field and that's why they are so cheap.

As far as having higher closing ratios with face to face your exactly right. thats true with any sales or life service you offer such as real estate, mortgage, insurance investments, etc.....Thats why i like telemarketing for appointments. it gets a person face to face with a client and all three of us win. The clients gets the service, you get the sale and I make a small profit on the front leaving you with the residual. The model will work I know it will but what type of budgets to agents have? I'm trying to figure out my packages as far as minimums and price breaks on quantities.

Where would be the best place to go to find agents that actually beat the streets and like going face to face with small businesses? From what I gather so far when an agent goes into a NEW business a lot of time he expected to walk out with individual plans? Is this correct? Is it possible to get multiple plans on one appointment and if so how often does it realy happen. What is a range in difference on a group plan of lets say 4-5 and an individual plan?

Man i love education. this is great!!!

Originally Posted by healthagent

I like the verification.

I'm trying to establish what your cost would be and see if the model would work.

1 rep generating 2 to 3 leads per hour is right on track - par for the course if you would. If only 6 make it through verification for every 18 generated it's 2/3rds in the circular file.

That would mean 1 qualified appointment set per hour - if you're paying reps $10/hr to telemarket with other expenses there's no way you're selling them for less than $20 per lead. That being said anyone would kill to close 50% of their appointments and if that came to pass $50 per appointment would not be unreasonable.

You have a few problems on this specific board. Very few members do group. Most of us selling health sell individual health and I'd say 95% of this board sells online with 5% meeting with any client.

Closing ratios drop substantially for small biz owners who were telemarketed when you close online as opposed to in person. 50% sounds about right for face to face - more like 1 out of 10 online. You won't get many bites charging anything more than $15 per lead to online agents.

[healthagent]

AV for small biz owners for individual health are around $4,000 with the average commission being 20% or $800 in commission on average. Renewals are 5% on average.

You'd be selling appointments for around $50 a pop and I don't think you'd have complaints with a 1/3 closing ratio.

You're obviously targeting agents who meet with clients and are well established closers.

And again, you're looking for rare health insurance agents who still meet with clients. You cannot pull this off with agents selling online. The closing ratio would be 1/10 and at $50 a pop you have no takers when a deal costs $500.

[Ramond B]

Your right I do want the type that still do the appointment thing. How I got this idea in the first place was a guy called us from NC and set an appointment for the agent to come in. While the agent was pitching me on the difference between individual and group my wheels were spinning in my head. I honestly didn't hear anything the guy said I just told my VP to make a decision..Lol.

As soon as the agent was done I started asking him about how he ended up in my office and how I was generated as an appointment. He told me that it was a company out of NC that is an agency and pais him 50% of the commission and then if he ever leaves they keep his clients and the residual. I thought about that model for a second and form a business stand point it looks good at first glance. However as I dug deeper the maintenance of health clients and retaining them if the agent left was too high a risk for me to go that route. It was too easy for the agent to just steal "their" face to face client if they left my company and went to another one. The retainer value for me on a national level wasn't worth the risk although I do know that company does do very well. I just figured that getting paid an expected margin on the front of a good product is the better way to go.

Are their brokers that buy leads or appointments for their agents? That is who I would really like to find. One person with 3-4 guys or gals that can go out and flat out close people down. I just don't know if it works that way in this industry like the mortgage. I'm assuming so. If so how can I find these agents/brokers?

Originally Posted by healthagent

AV for small biz owners for individual health are around $4,000 with the average commission being 20% or $800 in commission on average. Renewals are 5% on average.

You'd be selling appointments for around $50 a pop and I don't think you'd have complaints with a 1/3 closing ratio.

You're obviously targeting agents who meet with clients and are well established closers.

And again, you're looking for rare health insurance agents who still meet with clients. You cannot pull this off with agents selling online. The closing ratio would be 1/10 and at $50 a pop you have no takers when a deal costs $500.

[Ramond B]

On a side note am I really not aloud to read your blog? Not sure if your kidding there or not. Also I actually just noticed that I mis spelled my name in my user name and left out the y. Is there anyway tot change this or am I azzed out? Its cool if I cant change it I just thought I would ask since I'm obviously not the best typer. My name is Raymond and not Ramond lol. Sorry.

[salpro22]

So your insurance agent pays this agency out of NC (MGA perhaps??) for leads and he gets 50% of the commission. Not a bad deal if all he has to do is sell the plans. If you're looking to do something similar with agents you'll gonna have a hard time pitching that idea to agents, although some might bite.

Having said that, I'm sure as hell not going to pay for ANY leads IF I'm splitting commission. Now, if it's a matter or splitting commission and "I'm" the agent of record, I might be open to doing something like that.

I'm also going to insist the person I split with understands how commissions work and that they fill out the appropriate legal documentation.

2-3 leads an hour is a good ratio depending on what you consider a lead to be. I like that you have a callback first before handing off the lead. That cuts down the BS. The rest depends on your script and qualifying questions.

Feel free to PM me and we talk sometime.