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Old 04-03-2011, 11:06 AM   #1
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MisterRandyWatson on I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
 
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I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL... I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
...I'm absolutely sold on owning an IUL, but I'm still trying to figure out which carrier I'm going with--both to own, and probably to sell.

Aviva's product (Lifetime Builder III) is the only one I've looked at so far. 100% participation, 2% guarantee with a variety of crediting strategies, either with a 4% monthly cap or a 12.25 yearly cap or a 30 percent cap over 2 years.

What other IUL products, in your opinion should I check into and why? ING? LSW? Lincoln? Union Central? North American? Allianz?

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Old 04-03-2011, 01:30 PM   #2
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I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL... Re: I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
I would look at PacLife, they are the number one selling IUL company in the industry.

I own an IUL with them and also sell them.
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Old 04-03-2011, 04:08 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by jeremyweiser View Post
I would look at PacLife, they are the number one selling IUL company in the industry.

I own an IUL with them and also sell them.
What are the specs of the product?
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:18 AM   #4
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I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL... Re: I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
Penn Mutual - 2% guaranteed, 100% participation, cap is currently 13%, but obviously that fluctuates with interest rates. Long term, I would be more comfortable owning a contract from a true mutual company than a stock company. JMO.

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Old 04-04-2011, 08:21 AM   #5
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I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL... Re: I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
Which one are you currently selling or are you planning on selling? Buy that one and now you have a new sales tool, your policy statement.
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Old 04-04-2011, 08:35 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by VolAgent View Post
Which one are you currently selling or are you planning on selling? Buy that one and now you have a new sales tool, your policy statement.
I haven't decided yet, and yes, this is the idea.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:46 AM   #7
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I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL... Re: I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
I would second Penn Mutual; and add LFG.


Penn has a strong product (the strongest on the market imo), but they are a smaller company which makes some uneasy.

They also have an option to use NDR for loaned amounts, which is a very nice option.

Their loan rates are a fixed 4% for fixed loans, 6% for indexed loans; so basically they will most always be at least a wash (more so for fixed option)

But where Penn really exceeds is their Guaranteed Rate; it is currently higher than most Traditional Current UL products on the market!
Its currently 5.25%

Also, their YearlyP2P minimum cap is 4%; which is strong compared to 3% with LFG and 3.5% with ING.

The surrender period is only 10 years.

Penn has awesome illustration software too.



LFG has a good product too, especially considering the quality of the company.

It has a 12% yearly cap/6% monthly spread/3.2% monthly cap.
2% guarantee and 100% participation.

The guaranteed min is 1% but the historical strength of the caps and rates has been strong.
(yearly P2P has not been below 11.5%)

The loan rate is 5% which is about average.

The surrender period is only 10 years.



ING has three IULs; A more traditional IUL based on S&P500 or DOW30, an then there are two versions of their IUL world index.

I like the traditional IUL, but am still skeptical of the World.

Traditional has a 13.5% Y-P2P cap with a 3.5% cap min.

The guaranteed min crediting rate is 1%.
Loan rate is a fixed 3.15%

And I think the surrender is either 10 or 12 years.


The World uses a combination of 3 indexes, the S&P500/Euro 1000/Asia 1000.

It has a 5 year P2P strategy that uses the two best performing indexes.

They argue that it will result in better returns; I argue that they get you with the long 5 year period.... but in all fairness its a constant rolling 5 years.

It uses similar rates and caps as the traditional product.



The Aviva product mentioned seems like a fairly strong product.

I looked at Aviva a year or two ago and I want to say that what I looked at did not have 100% participation; probably was a different product.

One thing that stood out about the Aviva product was a 15 year surrender period.
Also, it has a true variable loan rate (based on Moodys corporate bond yield); or you have an annually variable loan dictated by company.


Whenever I look at PI for CV use, I assume that the client wants to access the money and have it as "usable as can be".

When companies do not set fixed loan rates it does not make it easy to plan for distributions; which makes me question how much that company really wants me to access that money....

I want a company that says from the start "we want you to use that money".


Also; take into account the crediting methods used in relation to premium.

INGs World starts a new 5 year period every year premium is paid.

Penn starts a new 1 year period every month premium is paid.
Penn gives you the option of paying annually into a monthly DCA account too.

LFG goes by quarters and credits monthly contributions to a holding account credited at the current fixed rate.


Hope that gives you some ideas.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:28 PM   #8
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MisterRandyWatson on I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
 
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Originally Posted by scagnt83 View Post
I would second Penn Mutual; and add LFG.


Penn has a strong product (the strongest on the market imo), but they are a smaller company which makes some uneasy.

They also have an option to use NDR for loaned amounts, which is a very nice option.

Their loan rates are a fixed 4% for fixed loans, 6% for indexed loans; so basically they will most always be at least a wash (more so for fixed option)

But where Penn really exceeds is their Guaranteed Rate; it is currently higher than most Traditional Current UL products on the market!
Its currently 5.25%

Also, their YearlyP2P minimum cap is 4%; which is strong compared to 3% with LFG and 3.5% with ING.

The surrender period is only 10 years.

Penn has awesome illustration software too.



LFG has a good product too, especially considering the quality of the company.

It has a 12% yearly cap/6% monthly spread/3.2% monthly cap.
2% guarantee and 100% participation.

The guaranteed min is 1% but the historical strength of the caps and rates has been strong.
(yearly P2P has not been below 11.5%)

The loan rate is 5% which is about average.

The surrender period is only 10 years.



ING has three IULs; A more traditional IUL based on S&P500 or DOW30, an then there are two versions of their IUL world index.

I like the traditional IUL, but am still skeptical of the World.

Traditional has a 13.5% Y-P2P cap with a 3.5% cap min.

The guaranteed min crediting rate is 1%.
Loan rate is a fixed 3.15%

And I think the surrender is either 10 or 12 years.


The World uses a combination of 3 indexes, the S&P500/Euro 1000/Asia 1000.

It has a 5 year P2P strategy that uses the two best performing indexes.

They argue that it will result in better returns; I argue that they get you with the long 5 year period.... but in all fairness its a constant rolling 5 years.

It uses similar rates and caps as the traditional product.



The Aviva product mentioned seems like a fairly strong product.

I looked at Aviva a year or two ago and I want to say that what I looked at did not have 100% participation; probably was a different product.

One thing that stood out about the Aviva product was a 15 year surrender period.
Also, it has a true variable loan rate (based on Moodys corporate bond yield); or you have an annually variable loan dictated by company.


Whenever I look at PI for CV use, I assume that the client wants to access the money and have it as "usable as can be".

When companies do not set fixed loan rates it does not make it easy to plan for distributions; which makes me question how much that company really wants me to access that money....

I want a company that says from the start "we want you to use that money".


Also; take into account the crediting methods used in relation to premium.

INGs World starts a new 5 year period every year premium is paid.

Penn starts a new 1 year period every month premium is paid.
Penn gives you the option of paying annually into a monthly DCA account too.

LFG goes by quarters and credits monthly contributions to a holding account credited at the current fixed rate.


Hope that gives you some ideas.
Wow.

Thanks for your effort and your information. That's really helpful.
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Old 04-04-2011, 02:26 PM   #9
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I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL... Re: I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Midland. I own one myself after doing the very same research a year or two ago. (Can't remember if I paid my 2nd or 3rd premium)

I went with Midland for several reasons. One is their stellar renewal rate history. IUL isn't that old so a track record of UL renewals, etc is what I used along with their IUL crediting history.

MNL has only moved their S&P P2P cap 1% from the place they started in 2005 or 2006 when they brought out the product. Don't hold me to these numbers but I think it was 14% when the product was introduced, went down to a low of 13% and now sits at 15%.

Plus they don't do a new money/old scam. Everyone who owns the product gets the same deal. I always found it unsavory for a company like Aviva to have a 10% cap on the S&P p2p for inforce policies but to have a 12% cap fror new policies. That tells me what I can expect in the future.

MNL policy also has some other nice features. Guaranteed wash loans after 5 years or variable rate loans based on Moodys. I think a 4% min and a 10% max on that.

They have a free accelerated benefit rider to advance face if I qualify for LTC and it waives all policy costs. The point to point strategies all have guaranteed participation rates and the averaging have no caps. Plus plenty of options (12 or 13). Each is a one year deal with reset and I can have as many or few as I wish.

I didn't choose it but they have a policy that has no front load and no surrender charge. Long term doesn't perform as well as the one I bought but I'm not worried about liquidity right now.

comp is really good 95% and I do quite a bunch of biz with them and get bonused up to 125%. they turn apps around fast and a live human person answers the phone every time!

My decision came down to the fact that I believe Midland will treat me fairest long term because they have a good record of doing so in the past. With any perm ins. isn't that really all we have to go on anyways?
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Last edited by ATM; 04-04-2011 at 02:28 PM. Reason: Posts merged
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:22 PM   #10
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I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL... Re: I'm Enrolling Myself in an IUL...
Originally Posted by ATM View Post
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Midland. I own one myself after doing the very same research a year or two ago. (Can't remember if I paid my 2nd or 3rd premium)

I went with Midland for several reasons. One is their stellar renewal rate history. IUL isn't that old so a track record of UL renewals, etc is what I used along with their IUL crediting history.

MNL has only moved their S&P P2P cap 1% from the place they started in 2005 or 2006 when they brought out the product. Don't hold me to these numbers but I think it was 14% when the product was introduced, went down to a low of 13% and now sits at 15%.

Plus they don't do a new money/old scam. Everyone who owns the product gets the same deal. I always found it unsavory for a company like Aviva to have a 10% cap on the S&P p2p for inforce policies but to have a 12% cap fror new policies. That tells me what I can expect in the future.

MNL policy also has some other nice features. Guaranteed wash loans after 5 years or variable rate loans based on Moodys. I think a 4% min and a 10% max on that.

They have a free accelerated benefit rider to advance face if I qualify for LTC and it waives all policy costs. The point to point strategies all have guaranteed participation rates and the averaging have no caps. Plus plenty of options (12 or 13). Each is a one year deal with reset and I can have as many or few as I wish.

I didn't choose it but they have a policy that has no front load and no surrender charge. Long term doesn't perform as well as the one I bought but I'm not worried about liquidity right now.

comp is really good 95% and I do quite a bunch of biz with them and get bonused up to 125%. they turn apps around fast and a live human person answers the phone every time!

My decision came down to the fact that I believe Midland will treat me fairest long term because they have a good record of doing so in the past. With any perm ins. isn't that really all we have to go on anyways?
AtM, how is the underwriting with Midland? What other products do you sale with them?
I have looked at using them because they a very nice priced GUL product.
Their term seems ok but not top tier. Just curious of your opinion since you write with them.
If your getting the bonus of 125% you are doing 150,000 of premium that is impressive.
Thanks for your help.
Shooter
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