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Reply to Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?     
Old 11-05-2015, 11:51 AM   #21
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Josh on Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
 
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use? Re: Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by Todd King View Post
Can you show that to me or at least point me in the Google direction because I'm just not sure I'm buying that yet.
You don't have to buy it, but we're buddies and it's certainly interesting. Here's a law firm's website talking about it:

A class action is a type of lawsuit in which one or several persons sue on behalf of a larger group of persons, referred to as "the class."
Class Action Attorney: What is a Class Action Lawsuit?

So yes, there has to be a group of people, but one person can sue on behalf of all of them. I don't know the details about these cases, but from what I gather one individual getting a call from a dialer on their cell phone allows them to sue on behalf of everyone similarly situated. Again, I'm not giving out legal advice, just trying to help folks out.

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Old 11-05-2015, 11:55 AM   #22
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Thad.Sipple on Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
 
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use? Re: Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
You don't have to buy it, but we're buddies and it's certainly interesting. Here's a law firm's website talking about it:



Class Action Attorney: What is a Class Action Lawsuit?

So yes, there has to be a group of people, but one person can sue on behalf of all of them. I don't know the details about these cases, but from what I gather one individual getting a call from a dialer on their cell phone allows them to sue on behalf of everyone similarly situated. Again, I'm not giving out legal advice, just trying to help folks out.

It is very simple the 1 person subpoenas all the phone records, lists, etc and then sues on there behalf. The goal isn't to sue per say the goal is to get you too settle.
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:09 PM   #23
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use? Re: Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
"This is the definition of a class action lawsuit."

"No, I can't show anyone that has been sued for a call to a cell phone from a dialer."

Gotcha. Now I'm scared. I better have my telemarketer hand dial to avoid this problem.

And just how would someone know the call originated via a dialer rather than hand dialed?

Rick

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Last edited by GreenSky; 11-05-2015 at 01:15 PM.
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:40 PM   #24
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Todd King on Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
 
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use? Re: Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
You don't have to buy it, but we're buddies and it's certainly interesting. Here's a law firm's website talking about it:



Class Action Attorney: What is a Class Action Lawsuit?

So yes, there has to be a group of people, but one person can sue on behalf of all of them. I don't know the details about these cases, but from what I gather one individual getting a call from a dialer on their cell phone allows them to sue on behalf of everyone similarly situated. Again, I'm not giving out legal advice, just trying to help folks out.
Right there is the key. There would have to be a "group" first. Well, an individual could start the ball rolling, but then the lawyers would have to realize that there were a lot more people affected by this one person calling. Do you really think a lawyer would advertise or hunt down a group of people that feel "offended" by it? Good luck with that! It ain't gonna happen!

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Old 11-05-2015, 02:22 PM   #25
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by Todd King View Post
Right there is the key. There would have to be a "group" first. Well, an individual could start the ball rolling, but then the lawyers would have to realize that there were a lot more people affected by this one person calling. Do you really think a lawyer would advertise or hunt down a group of people that feel "offended" by it? Good luck with that! It ain't gonna happen!

You're missing the big picture a class action lawsuit is a federal lawsuit, you don't need a whole bunch of people to start a class action lawsuit the single individual can start it and here's the key once this individual sued you federally no attorney will touch or respond to the suit without a $10,000 retainer fee. Again it's not about actually suing you all they have to do is submit the paperwork and most people won't respond which means they win or they will settle which means they win.

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What should be a concern is the professional plaintiffs and the professional plaintiffs that team up with scumbag attorneys and they do it just to extort money.

I highly doubt any individual or even a small call-center would ever get dinged by the actual government or TC PA law enforcers.
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Old 11-05-2015, 02:29 PM   #26
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use? Re: Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by Thad.Sipple View Post
You're missing the big picture a class action lawsuit is a federal lawsuit, you don't need a whole bunch of people to start a class action lawsuit the single individual can start it and here's the key once this individual sued you federally no attorney will touch or respond to the suit without a $10,000 retainer fee. Again it's not about actually suing you all they have to do is submit the paperwork and most people won't respond which means they win or they will settle which means they win.

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What should be a concern is the professional plaintiffs and the professional plaintiffs that team up with scumbag attorneys and they do it just to extort money.

I highly doubt any individual or even a small call-center would ever get dinged by the actual government or TC PA law enforcers.
I never said it had to be started by a group. It usually starts with one, but in order for it to be "class action", there has to be more than one person who wants to sue or settle. That ain't gonna happen to one agent calling from a dialer without incredible investigation on someone's part. That's the part that I'm saying isn't going to happen.
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Old 11-05-2015, 02:35 PM   #27
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by Todd King View Post
I never said it had to be started by a group. It usually starts with one, but in order for it to be "class action", there has to be more than one person who wants to sue or settle. That ain't gonna happen to one agent calling from a dialer without incredible investigation on someone's part. That's the part that I'm saying isn't going to happen.
Your right.............
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Old 11-05-2015, 03:00 PM   #28
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by Thad.Sipple View Post

Your right.............
Thank you......
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:34 PM   #29
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use? Re: Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by Josh View Post
One GREAT reason to call conventionally is to avoid getting stuck in a TCPA lawsuit. The short version is that if you have a cold calling list you're required by law to scrub cell phones out at least once every 15 days if you're using an "ATDS" which is what most dialers are. Unless you're committing to the time and expense of carving out cell phones, you're risking a $500 per call class action lawsuit.
If I understand correctly, the risk is associated with a list that potentially has cell phones included. SO the problem is a list not the dialer. IF you use a dialer with a crappy list then your at greater exposure therefore greater risk. IF you use a dialer with a scrubbed list then you are fine regardless.

Correct me if I'm wrong
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:43 PM   #30
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Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use? Re: Salesdialers Not Worth a Flip, Down Again, who else to Use?
Originally Posted by CIServices View Post
If I understand correctly, the risk is associated with a list that potentially has cell phones included. SO the problem is a list not the dialer. IF you use a dialer with a crappy list then your at greater exposure therefore greater risk. IF you use a dialer with a scrubbed list then you are fine regardless.

Correct me if I'm wrong
Short answer is yes, you are wrong.

Slightly longer answer is that the list quality is less the issue as much as it is whether or not the list has cell phones in it.

Much longer answer is that the word "scrubbed" folks typically use in reference to a DNC scrub. Almost no one is compliant with that, but no attorneys are making a big deal out of it with little marketers. In terms of it being scrubbed against cell phones, that's another story altogether. To be fully TCPA compliant you need to scrub your list against the DNC at least every 30 days. That's annoying, but relatively easy to do (register at https://telemarketing.donotcall.gov, download the suppression list, then use software like Predictive Dialers System, Mortgage Automatic Dialer, Make My Calls to do the scrubbing). The other major part of the TCPA is with respect to carving out cell phones and that's the issue here. If you're dialing by hand, it's a non-issue. To be compliant using a dialer ("ATDS" is the term used) then you need to scrub for cell phones at least every 15 days. There is no simple way to do that and the penalties are stiff.

Arguably a good list is more likely to have cell phones in it because it's going to have data aggregated from more places than simply the phone book which increases the odds of you have some cell phones in there. To take that a step further, even if you're calling on phonebook data, folks port their landlines to cell phones which can also cause an issue.

Another thing to consider is that the courts have upheld that the responsibility for compliance rests firmly on the shoulders of the marketers. Most list brokers will do what I refer to as a "courtesy scrub" where they'll scrub against the federal DNC, but that won't hold up in court.

Does that help or was I clear as mud?

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Originally Posted by Thad.Sipple View Post
Your right.............
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Is my left?
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