In response to the Mass Murder committed by a Mr Malik Nadal Hasan the "Imam" of the Washington DC Mosque, Mr Hassan attended, stated "Islam is not responsible". I for one have not been so angered by a statement in years.
Islam is responsible, "Imams" like him are responsible. I dont know if he is either complacent or simply a lieing instigator but it is unacceptable for this statement to not be challenged. It is the Muslim People who make up Islam and their religion has justified these very acts. These Muslim People need to stand against this sect of their religion and fight it whenever and where ever it arises, no excuses.
Edmund Burke's quote has never rang so true ... "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
So Please respond to this post in anyway you see fit or just simply name ways in which Islam is responsible.
I note that this is a repeated posting from another thread, and I would have linked to the post itself, but only know how to link to the thread. So here it is (again) and I am not kidding:
Islam is NOT a religion of peace.
The majority of Muslims are not a problem because the majority have a nominal adherence to the religion. They are no different than nominal Catholics who will say that they are Catholics and then proceed to disagree with everything that the Catholic church believes and teaches.
Nominal muslims are, for the most part, no different than nominal members of other religions. They don't really believe what the religion teaches they just lean that way.
That is not what I am talking about when I say that Islam advocate violence towards non-Muslims.
A devoted follower of Islam, who believes that the Quran is the word of god, and that Muslims should do exactly what it says, is going to be a militant extremist. He/she is going to believe that non-Muslims are infidels and that they need to be exterminated. That's not me making it up, that is what Islam teaches, if you care to pay attention.
A devoted follower of Judaism, who believes that the Torah is the word of God, and that Jews should do exactly what it says, is going to shun non-Jews. He/she is going to believe that non-Jews are unclean and that he/she should not associate with them.
A devoted follower of Christianity, who believes that the Bible is the word of God, and that Christians should do exactly what it says, is going to go into all the world and preach the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. If people reject the Christian message, then believers are told to leave and shake the dust off their feet, as a sign that the message was rejected.
Neither Judaism or Christianity advocate the extermination of non-believers as a policy of the religion. Islam does.
Christians evangelize, Jews shun, and Muslims kill.
It's a heck of a difference if you care to pay attention.
And as long as ignorant Americans continue to ignore that reality, you can count on Muslims taking the fight to us while we hope to rationalize and negotiate with them. A devoted Muslim is only going to keep you talking until he can position himself to cut your throat.
A devoted follower of Judaism, who believes that the Torah is the word of God, and that Jews should do exactly what it says, is going to shun non-Jews. He/she is going to believe that non-Jews are unclean and that he/she should not associate with them.
I know tons of devoted Jews who dress in black, attend services every weekend, keep kosher and follow all the other "rules" of the Torah... and who are not violent nor anything but peaceful, law-abiding citizens.
I don't know many devoted Muslims but the few I do are the same. Again, the sample I know is small so maybe you are right about them... but I would rather doubt it.
Born-again Christians? Well, there ARE are large number of those who I believe would commit violence, but there are many, many more who would not.
I think you overstate your case. But since you are an arch-conservative I understand your POV. Fifty years ago when I was just coming of age you folks made the same kinds of claims about blacks being a sub-class of humans.
Now reading some of this actually takes some time and effort. But then if you want to resign yourself to the propaganda that Islam is a peaceful religion, like Christianity, then you are part of the problem and not part of the solution.
And while you are making nice and saying nice things about Islam, Muslim terrorists continue to conspire to attack this nation, and yes, your family and friends. If you are not a Muslim, you are their enemy and you must be destroyed.
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Originally Posted by al3
Fifty years ago when I was just coming of age you folks made the same kinds of claims about blacks being a sub-class of humans.
Please point to the Biblical references that justify the killing of blacks because they are a sub-class of humans.
I can save you some time here, there are none.
Therefore, when you say "you folks", they ain't my folks and they have little to do with Jesus Christ who said,
Matthew 25:31-41 (New International Version)
The Sheep and the Goats
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world.
35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
Last edited by Robert Barney : 11-07-2009 at 01:41 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
I look forward to the liberals who will remind us of the first amendment and then I will reply that we are war, and that these are individuals aligned with the enemy who are giving aid and comfort to the enemy on our own soil (aka treason).
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This UK story offers some interesting information about Hason, the Fort Hood killer:
Of course our liberal friends will point out that this is merely guilt by association and that just because Hasan associated with terrorists and their supporters, doesn't mean he was influenced by them.
After all, Obama sat in Jeremiah Wright's church for 20 years and was never influenced by any of the crazy stuff that Wright advocated.
Last edited by Robert Barney : 11-08-2009 at 01:16 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
How many civilian hijacked planes did a group of angry Jews or Christians extremest fly into buildings in a major populated city?
Survey says...0
Muslims - 3...ok so only 2 hit their target.
Being that I was born in 1975, I did not have the first hand experience of the civil rights movement. I also was not raised to hate anyone on the basis of their skin, religion, sex, etc. only their actions.
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"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." Ronald Reagan
The only person responsible is the individual doing the shooting.
Sure there were lots of psychological and social factors that may or may not have affected the criminals motive, but thousands of us deal with similar pressures every day without taking a gun and blowing people away.
Hell, he was a Redskins fan - that in itself is cause, not justification to go beserk.
How many civilian hijacked planes did a group of angry Jews or Christians extremest fly into buildings in a major populated city?
Survey says...0
Muslims - 3...ok so only 2 hit their target.
Being that I was born in 1975, I did not have the first hand experience of the civil rights movement. I also was not raised to hate anyone on the basis of their skin, religion, sex, etc. only their actions.
How many angry white people did it take to blow up the Murrah building?
I see a couple of people playing Devil's Advocate on this post. Let me address the Tim McVay reference, he was indeed a self motivated mass killer. However he didnt have very public cheerleaders like Muslims do. This guy is now on Posters from Palestine to Iran and people are naming children after him. He knew this would happen.
And again I dont know why so many white people shoot up work places, they probably have true mental illness because its not like caucasians go around painting pictures of these guys and naming thier children after him.
So stop pretending like its the same thing. It's not.
That's a very good point. There was not any large group of people that praised McVeigh's terrorist attack. And you're also right that silence on the part of Muslims is the same as encouragement.
I think the Muslim leaders need to get very active and speak these actions down.
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That's a very good point. There was not any large group of people that praised McVeigh's terrorist attack. And you're also right that silence on the part of Muslims is the same as encouragement.
I think the Muslim leaders need to get very active and speak these actions down.
Right and it is not as though the christian community has been immune from the same criticisms and concerns. The Catholic Church for example just ignored or contributed to the child abuse problem to the point of absurdity and everyone would jump and up want to be the enlightened and pc one to explain that not all christians and priests or whatever are like that and than we cannot condemn all for the actions of a few. Well,,,,,,,,,,,okayyyyyy......but it is also necessary for people actually stand up make them knock that sh**t off too. We all want to be the enlightened ones but someone has to actually take a stand..I actually know that all muslims and chistians are not like the worst among them but your ass is grass and I am lawnmower if you go near my family with evil intent.
The Sufis for exampe are a muslim sect that for the most part is a pretty good group. Naturally then many of the Sunnis, Shiites and Wahabes want to kill them for being heretics...........sigh.
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""I think the Muslim leaders need to get very active and speak these actions down.""
This is assuming they want to condemn them.
After 9/11 I tried to believe that this was not the majority of muslims, Even while they were trying to kill my son. (USMC) The pure hate and rage I felt the morning of September 11th I still feel. I think swine like the terrorist @ Fort Hood are becoming more exceptable to the masses in the muslim populous, And some of our own. That makes them my enemy.
Originally Posted by healthagent
That's a very good point. There was not any large group of people that praised McVeigh's terrorist attack. And you're also right that silence on the part of Muslims is the same as encouragement.
I think the Muslim leaders need to get very active and speak these actions down.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
That's a very good point. There was not any large group of people that praised McVeigh's terrorist attack. And you're also right that silence on the part of Muslims is the same as encouragement.
I'm not kidding at all here, when McVeigh was executed, I was 18 years old working at a summer job sandblasting and cleaning out the inside of propane tanks. One of the old timers after it was announced McVeigh was dead, got a tear in his eye and saluted. He said "what McVeigh did was unexceptable since women and children were in the building, but that was it." The guy was interesting to say the least, certainly didn't represent public opinion.
I note that this is a repeated posting from another thread, and I would have linked to the post itself, but only know how to link to the thread. So here it is (again) and I am not kidding:
Islam is NOT a religion of peace.
The majority of Muslims are not a problem because the majority have a nominal adherence to the religion. They are no different than nominal Catholics who will say that they are Catholics and then proceed to disagree with everything that the Catholic church believes and teaches.
Nominal muslims are, for the most part, no different than nominal members of other religions. They don't really believe what the religion teaches they just lean that way.
That is not what I am talking about when I say that Islam advocate violence towards non-Muslims.
A devoted follower of Islam, who believes that the Quran is the word of god, and that Muslims should do exactly what it says, is going to be a militant extremist. He/she is going to believe that non-Muslims are infidels and that they need to be exterminated. That's not me making it up, that is what Islam teaches, if you care to pay attention.
A devoted follower of Judaism, who believes that the Torah is the word of God, and that Jews should do exactly what it says, is going to shun non-Jews. He/she is going to believe that non-Jews are unclean and that he/she should not associate with them.
A devoted follower of Christianity, who believes that the Bible is the word of God, and that Christians should do exactly what it says, is going to go into all the world and preach the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. If people reject the Christian message, then believers are told to leave and shake the dust off their feet, as a sign that the message was rejected.
Neither Judaism or Christianity advocate the extermination of non-believers as a policy of the religion. Islam does.
Christians evangelize, Jews shun, and Muslims kill.
It's a heck of a difference if you care to pay attention.
And as long as ignorant Americans continue to ignore that reality, you can count on Muslims taking the fight to us while we hope to rationalize and negotiate with them. A devoted Muslim is only going to keep you talking until he can position himself to cut your throat.
I disagree with many of your assumptions. There is not an inkling of doubt that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, in this I have placed all of my faith. However with that said, I disagree with your statements that if All Jews do exactly what the Torah says, or if All Christians do what the Bible says, or if ALL Muslims do what the Quran says, they will act a certain way.
All of these books are open to interpretation of the reader and their lives will reflect what they perceive as the truth. As an example, I believe that Christians are called to be pacifist, but most Christians would say that I'm completely wrong. However, I can show them where Jesus said:
1. LOVE your enemies- I am sure when he said this that he didn't mean to kill them.
2. I can show them where Jesus told Peter to put away his sword because "those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword".
3.I can show them where Jesus said in Matthew 5 " blessed are the peacemakers". Peace and war can't coexist, just as light and darkness can't.
4. Exodus 20 - THOUGH SHALL NOT KILL- It doesn't say "unless you have been wronged"
My point being, I try to live my life the way I feel Jesus would want me to, but that means many different things to many different people. The other religious books are the same way. If Muslims and Jews follow their books to a tee, it is still different for every person practicing that particular faith.
I disagree with many of your assumptions. There is not an inkling of doubt that the Bible is the inspired Word of God, in this I have placed all of my faith. However with that said, I disagree with your statements that if All Jews do exactly what the Torah says, or if All Christians do what the Bible says, or if ALL Muslims do what the Quran says, they will act a certain way.
All of these books are open to interpretation of the reader and their lives will reflect what they perceive as the truth. As an example, I believe that Christians are called to be pacifist, but most Christians would say that I'm completely wrong. However, I can show them where Jesus said:
1. LOVE your enemies- I am sure when he said this that he didn't mean to kill them.
2. I can show them where Jesus told Peter to put away his sword because "those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword".
3.I can show them where Jesus said in Matthew 5 " blessed are the peacemakers". Peace and war can't coexist, just as light and darkness can't.
4. Exodus 20 - THOUGH SHALL NOT KILL- It doesn't say "unless you have been wronged"
My point being, I try to live my life the way I feel Jesus would want me to, but that means many different things to many different people. The other religious books are the same way. If Muslims and Jews follow their books to a tee, it is still different for every person practicing that particular faith.
I believe that Christians are called by their religion to be pacifists. Christianity, as a religion, does not advocate war or violence.
I believe that Americans are called by their role as members of a democracy, and the foundation of our nation, to act in national defense include making war and killing the enemy. That also goes for punishing law breakers, including capital punishment.
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
Sgt. Alvin York had it correct.
Islam as a religion does NOT advocate pacifism. How you can read the statements of war in the Quran, and suggest that it is no different than Christianity, is beyond me.
Evidence continue to pile up. The shootings at Fort Hood were an act of home grown terrorism, with the shooter receiving support from Muslims living here in the United States:
""2. I can show them where Jesus told Peter to put away his sword because "those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword".''''
Then mohammed added 70 free virgins for those that died by the sword.
3.I can show them where Jesus said in Matthew 5 " blessed are the peacemakers". Peace and war can't coexist, just as light and darkness can't.""
Blessed are the peacemakers ,hiding behind the US Marine Corps.
While I wish you were correct. I live in a world that real people want to kill my family. Not tomorrow, but today. At what point would you fight? To what degree to protect your family? After the front line is breached?
I believe that Christians are called by their religion to be pacifists. Christianity, as a religion, does not advocate war or violence.
I believe that Americans are called by their role as members of a democracy, and the foundation of our nation, to act in national defense include making war and killing the enemy. That also goes for punishing law breakers, including capital punishment.
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
Sgt. Alvin York had it correct.
Islam as a religion does NOT advocate pacifism. How you can read the statements of war in the Quran, and suggest that it is no different than Christianity, is beyond me.
Evidence continue to pile up. The shootings at Fort Hood were an act of home grown terrorism, with the shooter receiving support from Muslims living here in the United States:
My point is that the book is interpreted differently by every single person that reads it. You proved that with you response.That's all; Just as you read my post differently than I intended for it to be read
If you believe that Christianity calls us to be pacifist yet you say it is our role to defend democracy, who comes first, country or God.
Corporal punishment doesn't work. Only poor people get executed, with very few exceptions.
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Originally Posted by WinoBlues
""2. I can show them where Jesus told Peter to put away his sword because "those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword".''''
Then mohammed added 70 free virgins for those that died by the sword.
3.I can show them where Jesus said in Matthew 5 " blessed are the peacemakers". Peace and war can't coexist, just as light and darkness can't.""
Blessed are the peacemakers ,hiding behind the US Marine Corps.
While I wish you were correct. I live in a world that real people want to kill my family. Not tomorrow, but today. At what point would you fight? To what degree to protect your family? After the front line is breached?
I guess it depends on how define the word PEACE. The Marines are not peacemakers, they are trained killers who use violence to create SUBMISSION through FEAR. FEAR IS NOT PEACE.If you beat your wife enough she may submit to your will and she may do as you say, but she does so because she fears you, not because you have established peace. By the way,when Jesus said to render unto Ceasar what is his, he was talking about taxes and tithing.Notice what he didn't say; if you don't agree with Ceasar, just go and kill him. Violence does not establish peace, it creates submission to YOUR will
Last edited by VaDwayne : 11-10-2009 at 02:26 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
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