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Originally Posted by john_petrowski
If Noah's Ark happened, after the waters receded and the ark landed everything would have been dead including all plant life. ...
If Noah's Ark happened, after the waters receded and the ark landed everything would have been dead including all plant life. What did the animals eat? Just making people go hmmmmmm. Also, how did the world get re-populated? Noah had a ton of kids?
3 possible answers:
1. Noah could have included plant life on the Ark
2. The flood could have been local, rather than global
3. God made a way...God is capable of making something from nothing.
The flood, according to the Bible, was world-wide and even if Noah brought plant life it would have taken years for new trees to grow. Now, if God just "made it happen" why not just kill everyone with just his will? Why all the "flood" drama? And eight peole were on the ark. How did 8 people re-popluate the entire world and even if they did were did Asian and Black people come from?
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Great questions that I trust will be answered some day. The bible can not possibly explain every facet of history, science, math, etc. since creation as that would be impossible, incomprehensible and would defeat the purpose of the bible--which is, to unveil God's plan of redemption for mankind.
The key is to not let unanswered details to these questions become a reason for discrediting the entire bible or God as many folks unfortunately do.
God wants people to seek for deeper understanding of things. That is why Jesus spoke in parables and why many passages of Revelation are seemingly cryptic...it is so that these things can only be understood by true seekers.
I could post several hundred questions that would also make you go "Hmmmmm", but in the other direction. But, what good does that do other than to make one think? Thinking is good...but nothing is found by thinking alone...answers are found by seeking, testing, and seeking some more.
------------------------------------ Nature has established patterns originating in the return of events, but only for the most part. -- Gottfried von Leibniz 1703 Under similar conditions, the occurrence (or non-occurrence) of an event in the future will follow the same pattern as was observed in the past. -- Jacob Bernoulli Ars Conjectandi 1713
You are missing my point and the bigger picture. People do not need more answers or Kirk Cameron expose's...people need an experience with God.
I think you really hit the nail on the head with this one Kyle. It's just unfortunate that people who subsribe to popular religion often times discount an individual's spiritual experience because it doesn't conform to what the bible says, or what pastor says, or what Jesus says. God exists in many more ways than Christianity allows for.
I think you really hit the nail on the head with this one Kyle. It's just unfortunate that people who subsribe to popular religion often times discount an individual's spiritual experience because it doesn't conform to what the bible says, or what pastor says, or what Jesus says. God exists in many more ways than Christianity allows for.
I suppose did not make myself clear. I do believe in Jesus Christ, the bible, and I respect and honor pastors. But, I do not think people can be brought to God in this modern day via information. We have all the information we want at our fingertips and yet many people still want nothing to do with God. We do not have a lack of information...John's questions about the flood could easily be researched on the net and probably scientifically answered. But, what people are lacking is a personal encounter with Jesus Christ.
Oops, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I choose to judge my experience by the bible, not the other 'way round, and correlate my faith with facts, not mystical experiences. It took me a LONG time to get to that point. No offense meant, hey, I'm hardheaded, please forgive me.
I'm getting very short on time, I shall have to let my posts stand as they are.
I choose to judge my experience by the bible, not the other 'way round, and correlate my faith with facts, not mystical experiences.
As do I. Although I do not seek for signs and wonders, I do believe signs and wonders will accompany truth...this is how the apostles lived and how the church was founded on the Day of Pentecost; but I do not allow signs and wonders to become my doctrine. What I am getting at is the apostolic experience that the first church had in the upper room...it is 100% bible and it is for everyone today..."For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call."
That is the experience I refer to...surely you believe Acts chapter 2 is bible and not a "mystical experience"?
My, my, here we go. I repeat, I agree to disagree, I'm not going to get drawn into a debate here, I don't have time to properly exegete and exhort verse by verse the 2nd chapter of Acts (rather than yanking one verse out of context). But I most certainly can, and I will CONSIDER doing it privately. If you are honestly interested and seeking, you know who you are, and you know how to find me.
It has been mentioned on this board many times NOT to try and talk someone into buying insurance. The same is true when presenting (debating?) the gospel. Jesus said "Tell forth". That is all. The results depend on Him. It's actually easier than insurance (to me). BUT, the odds in America are dismal. The odds given for insurance on this board are thus: 50 dials an hour to get 2 leads, 1 deal out of 15 leads. That's 1 deal out of 375 "offers" (give or take, I'm just using that particular example). I can tell you that the gospel has a much much less success rate in America. Of course, one soul truly saved is priceless.
I am in no way part of Ray's ministry or the Calvary Chapel group. But I very much like this presentation.
Also, many veterans on this board have said, if someone does not want to buy, MOVE ON. I like to say "Work with the ones that want it, love the ones who don't". Jesus said (paraphrasing) "If they do not accept you, shake the dust off your shoes and MOVE ON."
I would LOVE to debate doctrine here. But I don't have time. Perhaps later.
I notice that you have been very outspoken in your beliefs and that is great. In fact, some might say you have been trying to "sell" Jesus yourself to the board here. Again, I am not offended by it but you are doing what you say should not be done. But, come on, do not go away now just because a fellow believer is trying to take a different approach to the gospel than you are. Based on your lengthy posts on the subject until now, I do not think time is your issue.
By the way,
What scripture are you saying I have taken out of context?
Nobody is arguing. You do not have to partake of this discussion if it is not of interest to you...with all due respect.
As for proof that Jesus is the Son of God...the bible is my "proof" along with my experiences with the bible.
To say that Jesus was simply a fine man is not enough...if that is all he is then Christianity is a lie.
It seems like there was argument to me. Check the whole thread. Or...as you said, please do not partake in the discussion.
Your proof is "your" proof and is meaningless to many others. But that's OK. Your entitled to that belief. The right to disagree is what makes this civilization great.
Matty Alou, by the way, was a pretty good hitter too.
What I find distastful is through reading the entire Bible - and I went to Catholic school with daily Bible classes - Jesus consistently taught to love and accept everyone - foregiveness being a kinda a big deal of his.
However, most Christians I meet have nothing but distain for anyone who's not of their same faith. They are defensive and not fogiving with the underlying tone being "unless you believe as I do, you're going to hell."
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't come off as that self-righteous. I also see most Christains as total hypocrites not living a life style that Jesus clearly lays out yet want to dictate to others what they should and should not be doing. Hey, instead of that new SUV why not give that money to the poor. Just a thought.
What I find distastful is through reading the entire Bible - and I went to Catholic school with daily Bible classes - Jesus consistently taught to love and accept everyone - foregiveness being a kinda a big deal of his.
However, most Christians I meet have nothing but distain for anyone who's not of their same faith. They are defensive and not fogiving with the underlying tone being "unless you believe as I do, you're going to hell."
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't come off as that self-righteous. I also see most Christains as total hypocrites not living a life style that Jesus clearly lays out yet want to dictate to others what they should and should not be doing. Hey, instead of that new SUV why not give that money to the poor. Just a thought.
It seems like there was argument to me. Check the whole thread. Or...as you said, please do not partake in the discussion.
Your proof is "your" proof and is meaningless to many others. But that's OK. Your entitled to that belief. The right to disagree is what makes this civilization great.
Matty Alou, by the way, was a pretty good hitter too.
I suppose there was argument earlier amongst others that has since ended...but It appeared you were referring to me and JSF...where there is no argument.
You are right that my proof can not save any one else and that has been my point...you have to find your own proof.
What I find distastful is through reading the entire Bible - and I went to Catholic school with daily Bible classes - Jesus consistently taught to love and accept everyone - foregiveness being a kinda a big deal of his.
However, most Christians I meet have nothing but distain for anyone who's not of their same faith. They are defensive and not fogiving with the underlying tone being "unless you believe as I do, you're going to hell."
I'm pretty sure Jesus didn't come off as that self-righteous. I also see most Christains as total hypocrites not living a life style that Jesus clearly lays out yet want to dictate to others what they should and should not be doing. Hey, instead of that new SUV why not give that money to the poor. Just a thought.
John, as you stated in a previous thread http://www.insurance-forums.net/foru...streply&t=1462
"You judge it by its doctrine. The religion itself cannot be held reponsible for people claiming to be a member yet choosing not to follow any of its principles."
Based on your previous remarks, why is this such an issue for you?
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