While you're online quoting scripture right now other Christians are out doing deeds.
"Good Deeds" come in many different forms and occur in many different places including the internet.
Not sure whether you realize it but Kyle has performed a good deed right here on this exact thread. But who's to judge?
That is true but let's not get that confused with some people who truly dedicate their entire lives to God and the less fortunate.
No confusion....
A follower can serve God in many ways.
Dedication to feeding the hungry and helping the less fortunate and suffering are just a few ways to serve God and extremely important as well. There are so many more degree's of service a follower can perform.
Kyle defended and spoke up for Christ and Kingdom. Not to mention quoted scripture. To God, this is a degree of service that will not go wout merit.
You are correct to say that there exist "ones" that profess faith in Christ but do not act like it. God knows who they are too.
However I am guessing there will be more Faithful in Christ going to Heaven than of the non-faithful types? But I am a believer and this may not mean much to you. I dont know...
But, fellow believer or nonbeliever.... I still count you as friend on this earth. That is indeed worth alot to me non the less.
Cheers to you brilliant one. You are smart and you have my respect.
"However I am guessing there will be more Faithful in Christ going to Heaven"
That's the key. It is a guess.
Yes the word I used was "guess". Guess was prob a good choice of word for others (maybe you?).
As for me....I have faith...no guessing involved on my part. Just depends on your paradigm re Christ and salvation.
The "real key" is Faith...or no Faith. Because the reward is much greater than being "correct". The reward is eternal life.....or none.
I think the "I try but fail" stuff is a load. We all know exactly what it takes to follow the teaching's of Jesus and the simple truth is it's just too hard and we'd have to give up too many of life's pleasures. You're not fooling Jesus with the "I try" bs. What did anyone do yesterday to benefit people less fortunate? Nothing. Do you know you're supposed to do things to benefit the less fortunate? Sure...but we don't wanna. Then you're gonna look to God and say "I'm trying!" I'd love for judgement day to come, you stand before God and he says "Ok, let's take a look at how hard you tried."
John I think you may misunderstand what he is saying.
Adam sinned in the Garden of Eden and as his posterity, we are all sinners by very nature. We are born into it so we will will fail while trapped in a physical body until we die. This is referred to in theology as the Adamic Nature.
The apostle Paul talks about this struggle of good and evil within our bodies. He said, "that I want to do, I don't, and what I don't want to do, I do." It is simply a case of a new nature trapped in a physical body of sin. It wars within itself. Paul, a former zealous Pharasee and murderer of early Christians, was saved by pure grace on the road to Damascus. God transformed him then and there from a murderer to a follower.
We cannot achieve perfection on earth.....not even close and thank God we do not have to, nor are we judged by this FOR salvation. Salvation comes only by Jesus death, the Lamb that WAS the perfect sacrifice and he took my place. When I submitted my repentant heart to Him asking for his salvation, He imputed his righteousness to me. Now God the Father instead of seeing my soul as sinful, sees it as righteous because of Jesus's righeousness that has been imputed unto me.
This is GRACE, aka unmerited favor. Christians are as filthy and undeserving as everyone else, however we have embraced the SON as our Saviour and made him Lord.
As an anology, I was due to go to the electric chair and now I have been pardoned by the governor. Not because I am good or how much good I do, but because he had mercy on me. No he does not have mercy on everyone while I do wish He did. I AM NOT THE SOVERIGN GOD OF THE UNIVERSE THAT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE! He calls the shots, not me.
I can scrunch up my puny fist and shake it at him all I want defying him, and say"I don't like the way you do things and I won't follow you!" but it will change nothing other than your eternal seperation from all that is good (Him).
God's Soverignty and Omnipotence(attributes of God) can be defined as:
God does what he wants, when he wants, how he wants, with who he wants and he does not care what our opinion is. He says in Jeremiah that "His ways and thoughts are far higher than ours". I think that is obvious.
Christians are easy to pick on, no doubt. This is partly because non- Christians have formed an erronous opinion of what a Christian is to be. Then when we add all those folks that are "religious", but have not truely embraced Jesus as their Lord (not really followers of Christ, aka true Christians) then things do indeed appear very muddy to those in outside circles.
Keep in mind the Bible clearly explains there will be many that preach, teach, and call themselves followers, but Jesus said in the last days he will say "depart from me, I NEVER KNEW YOU"
[quote=CHUMPS FROM OXFORD;23292]I admire your faith (seriously). And time will tell (maybe not) if your guess was correct.
Appreciate your kindness. Believer or Non I respect you as well.
I am always taken back to this one statement my mother passed onto me before she passed into Heaven Sept 2006.
[COLOR=#ff0000]"I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, than live my life as if there isn't, and die to find out there is"[/COLOR]
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I think all this discussion on who is or who is not a "real" Christian is not what this thread was about. I did not write the following but it thought it was of interest.
Here is a question:
If God answers medical prayers, then why do you need health insurance?
Simply think it through. If what Jesus says about prayer in the Bible is true, and if all the stories about medical miracles in inspirational literature are true, and if your belief in God and the power of prayer is true, and if [COLOR=black]God has a plan for you[/COLOR], then why do you ever need to visit a doctor or go to the hospital? Why don't you simply pray for a cure whenever you get sick?
The reason I ask this is because the statement that Jesus makes in Mark 11:24 is so simple:
Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.
So is what he says in John 14:14:
If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
There is this statement in Psalms chapter 41:
1 Blessed is he who has regard for the weak;
The Lord delivers him in times of trouble.
2 The Lord will protect him and preserve his life;
He will bless him in the land
And not surrender him to the desire of his foes.
3 The Lord will sustain him on his sickbed
And restore him from his bed of illness.
In Mark 16, Jesus talks about the laying on of hands:
16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. 17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will cast out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.
But even more remarkable is James 5:15, where the Bible says:
And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up.
These are powerful verses. Keep in mind that these are the words of an all-powerful, all-knowing, perfect God. And James 5:15 is completely unambiguous. If these words are true and perfect, it seems like a faithful person should have no need for health insurance.
What reason would a perfect God have for making false statements in the Bible? Yet, by owning health insurance, you demonstrate to yourself that something in these verses is amiss. In addition, the fact that you have health insurance indicates that you have no faith in [COLOR=black]God's Plan[/COLOR] for you. Doesn't it? Let's look at an example.
Praying for a cure
When people are sick, they often pray to God for a cure. This is especially true in the case of profound, life-threatening illnesses and chronic diseases. We've all heard the stories of amazing cures and medical miracles that have come through prayer. For example, here is a story from a housewife in Santa Monica:
"I went to the doctor, and he told me that I had cancer of the uterus. One solution, according to my doctor, was a radical hysterectomy. But he wanted to try chemotherapy first, just in case. For me, my only goal in life was to have children, and I could not let the doctor make me sterile with a hysterectomy. That very day I got down on my knees and I prayed to God for a miracle. I read every passage of the Bible that had anything to do with healing, and I wrote them all down on index cards that I carried with me everywhere. I recited the verses, and I prayed whenever I had a spare minute -- Whether I was waiting at a stop light or for my husband to come home for dinner, I was praying and reciting those verses. And you know what? The good Lord cured me. I started on chemotherapy. At the very next visit, my doctor noticed a change. At my next visit he said, 'Let's postpone the surgery and see what happens.' A year later he could no longer detect the tumor, and he declared me cured. I knew in my heart -- it was the power of those scripture verses. God answered my prayers and cured me."
If you subscribe to Guideposts magazine you can read a new story like this just about every month. Even big city newspapers and national magazines report on these stories now.
There are two questions that we should ask based on this story:
Why did our housewife from Santa Monica need chemotherapy if God was going to cure her anyway? God is all-powerful, so his cure should be instant and free of side-effects.
On the flip side, if "[COLOR=black]God's plan[/COLOR]" were for her to have a hysterectomy, what point is there in her praying? God's plan comes from an all-powerful being and it is going to run its course no matter what we do. What good is it to pray in such a situation?
If you think about these two questions and how they interact with each other, you will realize something important. If God exists, and if God answers prayers, and if God has a [COLOR=black]plan[/COLOR] for each of us, then there is no point in ever visiting a doctor. Owning health insurance is a complete waste of money. The reason is easy to see: Either God will or will not answer any prayer for healing. If he does answer the prayer, there is no need for a doctor. If he does not, then God's plan is for you to be sick. Since God is omnipotent, no amount of doctoring will change the outcome of God's plan. Seeing a doctor is a waste of time.
Understanding Jesus
If you are a believer and if you have your Bible nearby, we can look at your health care policy from another angle. Turn to Matthew 6:25-34. Jesus says:
Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life? "And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?' For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself.
Jesus' statement is utterly clear: "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow." Yet health insurance is a physical manifestation of worry. You buy health insurance because you are worried about your health tomorrow.
The question to ask yourself, therefore, is simple: If you are a believer, why you need health insurance? Or, for that matter, car insurance, life insurance or home owner's insurance? Why are you worrying about your health in the future when: A) Jesus has told you specifically not to worry (Matthew 6:34), and B) Jesus has promised to cure any illness that arises (James 5:15)? In addition, why are you worrying about money, which is what health insurance is all about, when in Matthew 6:19 Jesus specifically says:
Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
In Matthew 19:21 Jesus goes even further, telling you to sell everything and give the money to the poor. Obviously he intended for you to give up your health insurance policy and give its monthly payment to the poor as well.
And then there is Poverbs 3:5-8:
Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the Lord and shun evil. This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones.
Why do you own a health insurance policy when you are supposed to be putting your trust in the Lord, who will bring health to your body?
Everything the Bible says is very clear. Why are you ignoring everything that it tells you to do?
Here is a possibility for you to consider: you are completely ignoring the Bible because, in your heart, you know that God is imaginary. What other reason is there for you, as a believer, to ignore God so profoundly by owning health insurance?
------------------------------------ ILIAA
Training, Community, Support, and Success Independent Life Insurance Agents Assn rick@iliaa.org
Somehow we have God painted as some loving and forgiving being. However, if you stick to the Bible he is a very vengeful God. If you really do believe in Noah's Ark let's remember that he killed every human on the entire planet. There was obviously good and bad people yet God did not distinguish. Everyone was slaughtered.
GreenSky, You have a huge post with very logical questions/comments. I respect your thoughts.
Here is my Christian point of view. It's free and so take it for what it's worth...
Ref "[COLOR=black]Praying for a cure"[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][COLOR=red][COLOR=black]God uses people through the Holy Spirit today to do his works. Interacting with people, Doctors, even insurance Agents can be a blessing regardless of the situations we are in. So interaction with other people is more important to GOD than whether we need a doctor against His own power. These are opportunities to love and to serve each other. Interaction amongst each other is the realm where true Faith can be sown. When Jesus left this earth on the clouds God sent the Holy Spirit to earth for just this kind of activity to occur through his church. Jesus told his disciples upon visiting them after his resurrection; “I must go so that he will come.” That’s the Holy Spirit.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]Why Doesn’t God wave his magic-wand and make everything better all the time? He wants us to go beyond our “seeing is believing” mentality into true Faith. God knows that our true security and salvation rest not in the surety of a healthy physical life but it rests in surety of our Spiritual Eternal lives. Hence physical life is not meant to be forever [/COLOR][COLOR=red]“When we see him, we will be as He is”.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]God wants us to exercise our Faith daily like a muscle it grows stronger through prayer, petition, service and weakness. So regardless of how powerful GOD is, instead of always coming to our rescue on queue, he wants us to go through the motions because he knows that we need to build up our Faith so we can have the character to “store up our treasures in Heaven” and serve him here on earth while still in our physical bodies.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]Ref [/COLOR][COLOR=black]Understanding Jesus, Why do we need Health Insurance?:[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black][COLOR=red][COLOR=black]I will go to Heaven when I die and so I am NOT WORRIED about getting sick and dying from a personal aspect. However, I would hate to leave hospital bills here for my family to pay after I am gone ( that would not be good stewardship).[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black] [/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]One thing I can speculate with 100% accuracy is that “I AM GOING TO DIE”. [/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]Health insurance for me is a matter of good stewardship and comes from the spirit of care and concern for my family and loved ones. Not because I am worried about my body from a selfish aspect.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]Hence, health insurance is an investment for the future of my family because I do not want to saddle them w my inevitable hospital bills. They can better serve God wout the burden of debt over thier heads.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][COLOR=red]“Divide your portions to seven or even eight, for you do not know what misfortune may occur on the earth”[/COLOR][COLOR=red] ecclesiastes 11:2.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][COLOR=red]“The wise man saves for the future but the foolish man spends what ever he gets”[/COLOR][COLOR=red] Proverbs [/COLOR][COLOR=red]21:20[/COLOR][COLOR=red][/COLOR][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]Once self insured a faithful would drop the policy and use that payments to serve God like feed the hungry etc, etc…[/COLOR][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]I will do my part by buying health insurance and trust God to do the rest if I ever take to illness save old age. I am not afraid to die as long as I have taken care of business for my family here first on earth so that they can carry on with serving our Lord here with out the burden of hospital bills.[/COLOR][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][COLOR=black]If I die Tomorrow, no worries because I have been praying to keep my family safe and healthy in order that they may serve until their time comes. I am confident God will answer. [/COLOR][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][COLOR=red][COLOR=black]God will determine my time to go as long as I allow him control. However I should not expect God to perform miracles in saving my health should I decide to abuse drugs or alcohol for instance. Here I have taken control away from God and since he wants me to remain a free being he will allow me [/COLOR][COLOR=black]to[/COLOR] “reap what I sow.”[/COLOR][/COLOR]
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[COLOR=black][COLOR=red]Respecfully yours, CHAS[/COLOR][COLOR=black][/COLOR][/COLOR]
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Does anyone know what Jesus thought about Equity Indexed Annuities or Life Settlements?
Winter
Funny but actually yes, God/Jesus do have opinions about our money. There are 3,350 references to money and invest directly from The Bible!
Too many to mention here.
IE: [COLOR=darkslateblue]"Steady plodding brings prosperity"[/COLOR] [COLOR=navy]Proverbs 21:5[/COLOR]
Apply that to your EIA's.....
Another....
[COLOR=navy]"Divide your portions to seven, even eight for you do not know what misfortunes may occur on the earth" Ecclesiastes 11:2[/COLOR]
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[COLOR=#000080]Cheers matie![/COLOR]
But it's really great having people argue about who is the "best" Christian.
If people were as ethical and honest as I know I am, the world would be a better place.
So hey I'm curious (seriously). Now that I've shared my Christian faith. You pretty much have formulated your own opinion about Christians (I'd gather from your comments along this thread).
Question:
As an athiest, what happens to you when you die?
Not being facetious I'm just curious about your "Honest" perspective.
No need for health insurance!
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