Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by James
I can sit here and twist history around Al, and the Jewish people can easily be laid to blame for all sins of the world if I twist enough facts to suit me as you do against Christianity.
You hardly have to 'twist' history to blame non-Christians for all the sins of the world. That IS the history (i.e official position) of the Catholic Church and later the Protestant Reformation ... at least for all but maybe the last 40 of the past 2,000 years.
You want history? Read your OWN history. No need to twist or embellish to lay all the sins of the world at the feet of non-Christians. For us non-Christians, that's old, old, very old news.
How could this happen, in what will soon be 2008, in a pluralistic, multicultural, multireligious society, a society based on the concepts of religious freedom and separation of church and state? What were they thinking?
I would have to ask, how can a writer on the Washington Post know so little of the Constitution? Show me the "Separation of Church and State"? We all know of the "No Established Church" but the Separation? Simple political extreme left wingers going crazy, and there within the left wing of America is the one great threat to us all. People like Al (maybe not Al specifically), will as in days gone by support brutal and intolerant government, for so called security. May it be Hitler, Stalin or Mao, the most brutal governments of the 19th Century came to power using liberal dogma and fear that the weak always have.
They will bash Christians and the USA obvious connection to Christianity to establish fear. In the end the same will support people like Hillary or Bill and eventually things go so wrong. As in our tolerence of the Global Warming fanatics, tree huggers and bad land management, Illegal Aliens, Taxation (as in stripclubs) all in the name of some wrong that has to righted.
Here is some twisted logic of the left, the movie "Charlie Wilson's War". Now in a movie screen near you and the rave of the left, it wasn't Reagen that ended the Cold War, it was Charlie Wilson! Now it goes deeper then that, stingers and other weapons that are being used by the bad people of Afghanistan today is Reagen's and those rasically Republicans fault? Well, the simple fact of the matter (as noted by the movie), Charlie's only real contribution was getting stinger missiles over to Afghanistan (quite illegally if I remember?) which aided the rebels against USSR forces. Yet, they, the Left Nuts still say that it was people like Rumsfeld, Cheney sent stinger's over to Afghanistan but will now say it was Charlie Wilson that really ended the Cold War (they attempt to use the same facts twice in various ways)? They say Reagen or his hardline stance and military build up was not the reason. Which in retrospect was Clinton's to tear down as in the Peace Dividend, but today try to blame Bush for not having the forces readied to do battle in Iraq. The logic is so twisted it is hard for me to even try to understand, as can be noted!
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by James
Because like all other nuts, that is what you wanna see.
You mean I'm only a 'nut?' Not a heathen? Not a pagan? Not a heretic?
So tell me. In what state will the first Huckawitz camp be built where all the 'nuts' will be sent? I mean face it. You can't allow us 'nuts' to be running loose and speaking 'freely' to your flocks. You think President Huckabilly is going to allow that? The man is a Baptist minister, and you know those Baptists!
I'm surprised the REST of you Christians are not afraid that he's going to make you dunk your babies for baptism and not sprinkle? We might have a religious war over that. Nothing raises the BP of serious Christians more than the great question of dunking vs. sprinkling.
The Huckabilly vs. The Hildebeast. What a campaign that will be! Sounds like a World Wrestling Federation two out of three main event.
It will be something to see...20 million right-wing whackos fighting 20 million left-wing whackos... with the rest of the country waiting in line to get a visa to emigrate to Canada!
I would have to ask, how can a writer on the Washington Post know so little of the Constitution? Show me the "Separation of Church and State"? We all know of the "No Established Church" but the Separation?
You're being serious, right? You really believe that there should be favored, if not official, religion established by the Congress? You have no appreciation that there are people who are NOT Christians who are scared to hell of those who are... and for good and valid historical reasons?
People like Al (maybe not Al specifically), will as in days gone by support brutal and intolerant government, for so called security. May it be Hitler, Stalin or Mao, the most brutal governments of the 19th Century came to power using liberal dogma and fear that the weak always have.
At least people like Al, (and specifically Al) know that all of these brutal governments were in the 20TH century, not the 19th. Why do we know this? Because we actually studied our history and didn't take the word of Rev. Billy Sunday or Tammy Baker.
They will bash Christians and the USA obvious connection to Christianity to establish fear.
No one has to bash Christians to establish fear. Non-Christians have plenty of historical fear from the "born-again Christian" wing(s) of the various Christian denominations. We've seen cross-burnings, we've seen Bull Connors, we've seen the KKK and the neo-Nazi movements. We've seen church bombings and temple arsons. We know about quotas and "gentlemen agreements" for school admission. We've read about being tortured on the rack or burned at the stake. You don't think non-Christians have fear of devout right-wing Bible-thumpers? You don't know the half of it.
The entire history of Christianity is based upon subjugation, intimidation, persecution, and domination of non-Christian believing people, countries, and continents. Ask any African who knows HIS history. Ask any Jew who knows HIS history. Ask any Hindu, Muslim, American Indian or any of the thousand and one other religious groups that have faced the threat of extinction by those who profess to be "Christians." They will tell you about fear.... because they know their history... and yours.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by al3
You mean I'm only a 'nut?' Not a heathen? Not a pagan? Not a heretic?
So tell me. In what state will the first Huckawitz camp be built where all the 'nuts' will be sent? Al
Hummmm, so exactly what town do you live in, in that Heathen-Pagan of that Heretic State of California you live again Al? I'm sure that town would be as good as any other for starters.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by al3
So tell me. In what state will the first Huckawitz camp be built where all the 'nuts' will be sent? I mean face it. You can't allow us 'nuts' to be running loose and speaking 'freely' to your flocks.
Al
I thought we already had this discussion. Since all the nuts are already right there at Camp Pelosi in San Francisco it would work for everyone to have it there.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Al, you really know how to work yourself up!
Last I remember (and this is recent history, only), Hitler was an atheist and yet no one here is afraid of Rick. Why do you make these generalizations?
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by Mr. Bill
Al, you really know how to work yourself up!
Last I remember (and this is recent history, only), Hitler was an atheist and yet no one here is afraid of Rick. Why do you make these generalizations?
I don't get the impression Hitler was an atheist. Have you read Mein Kampf?
Atheist (note that by his implication atheism is to be deplored)
Edit: of course I don't mean to imply that since Hitler was brough up as a Catholic we should be particularly afraid of Catholics. Particularly I don't think any of the major party candidates are likely to be closet authoritarians or religious fundamentalist nuts. Self-centered rather corrupt egotists - probably; complete idiots and ruthless tyrants - not likely. Once the Republican nomination is over the tune will shift to the center; the candidates just have to play the game as it's written.
Last edited by Agent Jeff : 12-24-2007 at 12:07 PM.
Reason: added point
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by Winter
I thought we already had this discussion. Since all the nuts are already right there at Camp Pelosi in San Francisco it would work for everyone to have it there.
Happy Season!
Winter
Well, he'll get a good deal if he stays outside of The City as real estate prices have actually dropped (never happened before in my lifetime.)
Anyway, I kind of expect that Rev. Huckabilly will franchise his operations such that there will be a Huckawitz in every city and town where there are non-believers. From what I heard, you will just have to look for the sign of the Golden Crosses. I wonder if he will get sued by McDonalds.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by al3
(And by the way... for those of you interested, Jane and I have a Christmas tree... and gifts under it... lots of Jews do. Al
Of course you have a tree. Many people do. It is either part of the Christian culture and part of the wider culture. That was the point of the bill before Congress which your left wing loon friend could not understand when she wrote that Washington Post article, and you went into a rant about how we were establishing a state relgion and Huckabee was taking over the world. The bill simply intended to make it "allowable" to refer to and celebrate Christmas without people and public entities trying to suppress it out of some trumped argument about it establishing a state religion. Schools have a "season holiday" or "winter break" on Dec 25. That holiday is CHRISTMAS. Get over it. People shop for CHRISTMAS presents before CHRISTMAS at places like walmart, gift shops, etc. This is because the wider culture celebrates CHRISTMAS on CHRISTMAS. Not because Christians are taking over the stores. Get over it.
Ps. Hope you get somthing good for Christmas even though it is all a vast right wing conspiracy intended to get you to convert from Judaism.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by Winter
The bill simply intended to make it "allowable" to refer to and celebrate Christmas without people and public entities trying to suppress it out of some trumped argument about it establishing a state religion.
Winter
Do you believe we should have menorahs and manger scenes on state (public) property? Should we have prayer in schools? I don't think so... not because I think it makes a difference, but because it causes such a stink with each religion wanting THEIR prayer said or THEIR symbols exhibited that it's just easier for us to all get along by not having any public prayer or religious ornamentation in schools, courts, etc.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by al3
Do you believe we should have menorahs and manger scenes on state (public) property? Should we have prayer in schools? I don't think so... not because I think it makes a difference, but because it causes such a stink with each religion wanting THEIR prayer said or THEIR symbols exhibited that it's just easier for us to all get along by not having any public prayer or religious ornamentation in schools, courts, etc.
No I don't support some of those things such as school prayer etc. but there needs to be reasonable accomodation for a culture where three quarters of the population is Christian. As I stated, I believe in relgious freedom for Islamic countries as well but that does not require suppression of the Islamic nature of their cultures. The First Amendment does not require you to stomp out every reference to religion.
The bill that was before Congress was just a very generic affirmation of the fact that Christmas and Christianity are part of the culture and some of the efforts to stomp out Christimas and references to Christianity are getting too looney. Only 9 Democrats voted against the bill so it was no where near the gestapo move that either you or the Washington Post immediately lept to. As Islam spreads int he United States there are more and more calls for reasonable accomodation so that kids and workers can observe certain practices and holidays. Some right wingers immediately just go off a cliff in their mind about Muslims taking over and so on and so forth. That is just the mirror image of your reaction and the Washington post's reaction to the bill before Congress.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
I am Jewish and I absolutely LOVE Christmas. I am very happy it is a national holiday and have no problem with Congress recognizing it. I get time off from work, but I don't have to spend it with my extended family. What else could one ask for!
In any case, Bush is also a Born Again Christian and among his follies, there haven't been any slights to the Jews, so why worry about Huckaby?
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by Melmunch3
In any case, Bush is also a Born Again Christian and among his follies, there haven't been any slights to the Jews, so why worry about Huckaby?
Bush is simply opportunistic with the born-again right. He "plays" them. He knows what to say to keep them in his corner... but he's not really one of them. However Hickabillay wears his religion on his sleeve and he impresses me as someone who has very little tolerance to those who hold to another faith.... as do most of those who support him. Show me a Baptist that didn't think all Jews, Muslims, Hindus, etc. needed to be converted to Christianity (by force if necessary) and I'll show you... a Unitarian!
If this guy wins, it's the Spanish Inquisition all over again.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by Melmunch3
I am Jewish and I absolutely LOVE Christmas. I am very happy it is a national holiday and have no problem with Congress recognizing it. I get time off from work, but I don't have to spend it with my extended family. What else could one ask for!
In any case, Bush is also a Born Again Christian and among his follies, there haven't been any slights to the Jews, so why worry about Huckaby?
Or to muslims either really, given the hatred that could have been whipped up on the home front after 9/11.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!Go to Top
Originally Posted by al3
Bush is simply opportunistic with the born-again right. He "plays" them. He knows what to say to keep them in his corner... but he's not really one of them.
Al
Gee, its funny the way the left constantly portrays Bush as a right wing religious zealot but if he agrees that he has religious beliefs and is a Christian then the left suddenly says "no he doesnt really, thats just an act he puts on." Kind of hard to win that one isnt it.
Of course the most pinko president that we have ever had, Jimmy Carter, was a born again Southern Baptist but thats okay because he was a Democrat. Yes, I know he ultimately defected. Does not change it.
Re: Jew? Hindu? Muslim? You ain't an American!
Now it goes deeper then that, stingers and other weapons that are being used by the bad people of Afghanistan today is Reagen's and those rasically Republicans fault? Well, the simple fact of the matter (as noted by the movie), Charlie's only real contribution was getting stinger missiles over to Afghanistan (quite illegally if I remember?) which aided the rebels against USSR forces. Yet, they, the Left Nuts still say that it was people like Rumsfeld, Cheney sent stinger's over to Afghanistan but will now say it was Charlie Wilson that really ended the Cold War (they attempt to use the same facts twice in various ways)? They say Reagen or his hardline stance and military build up was not the reason. Which in retrospect was Clinton's to tear down as in the Peace Dividend, but today try to blame Bush for not having the forces readied to do battle in Iraq. The logic is so twisted it is hard for me to even try to understand, as can be noted!
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