Insurance Agent Forum

[briko3]

Let me ask you this Al. After reading what you wrote in your first post, what did you really expect?

[Rivers1]

Al, your rants are like the movie "Groundhog Day". It's the same vile verbiage day after day after day. Nice way to use Kennedy's passing as another springboard to take a jab at everyone.

RIP Kennedy

[deg929]

Al, I have to tell you.....every time lately that I find a thread on here that I find to be an interesting topic, I open it up and you are spewing a bunch of crap toward a bunch of people that I don't think you even know. You are just always looking for that confrontation. Why couldn't you just say, "I wish to mourn the passing of a great man," instead of taking that next step and accusing everyone of being haters? Why can't you just say what you want to say about him, without spouting off about everyone else at the same time?
The only long post that I've ever had on this forum was one where you were accusing everyone of being racist and Klan members, and the like, and the fact is that it just IS NOT true, so I felt then that I had to say something, as I do now.

My question for you is, do you just hang out on this forum to have an opportunity to take shots at everyone else that's on here, trying to learn something and make a better living for their families?
Did something horrible happen to you as a child that has instilled so deeply in you an anger toward others that you can't get past it to move on with your life?
Ted Kennedy is not a man to be put on a pedestal. He did dedicate his life to public service, and for the most part, I believe that he did do that with a certain flair and grace, but his personal life was a shambles. I don't judge him, because as someone posted on here earlier, "Judge not, lest ye be judged," and since I am not perfect myself, I don't sit in any position to determine where he will go based on the life that he lived. If he accepted the Lord, and was saved, then I believe that he is in Heaven. If he did not, then I believe that he is not, regardless of how much good you or anyone else thinks that he did while he was here.

I do think that it's interesting, though, that you have yet to acknowledge any of the comments about the drowning, in which he was CLEARLY way beyond wrong. You want to talk about great flaws or great faults, neither one of those phrases even come close to what happened that day. I'm guessing that since you haven't even mentioned that, despite it being brought up so many times, perhaps you just don't believe that it actually happened, or that it happened but he paid his dues for it (which he didn't) and we should all just forgive and forget and move on past it. Goodness knows he did.........

I didn't start this post to villify him, and that is not what I am doing. I'm just saying that if you're going to start a thread like this, why can't you just leave well enough alone at, "I wish to express my condolences for the loss of a great American," if that's indeed what you believe happened here, but drop all of the BS about believing that everyone on here would view his passing as good news.

I will say that the way you carry the torch for civil rights, and the way you express your racism to the other people on this forum, would have to be considered a slap in the face to Ted, RFK, JFK, and yes, even MLK.

Like I said, he dedicated his life to public service, and without guys like him, the Right would not have had to be so sharp at their game to stay ahead of him. He always proved a worthy adversary to some really great Senators of our time.......

My thought is to let it go.

RIP, Senator Kennedy.

[al3]

Your post was well written.

I take what is given and I give back with the same velocity.

You hit me, I hit you back just as hard.

What I find so interesting is that you neo-cons feel that you have the right to say whatever you want about me or those whom you are opposed to... many very hateful things, but that "we" don't have that same right to post the same about you.

Where do you get that from?

It's like you feel you are somehow special or something. It must be that sense of entitlement you were all brought up with.

I'm sorry you folks don't like taking back the same crap you post here, but that's the way it is. You may be special... but not to me.

I guess so many of you are just used to getting your own way all the time and not having anyone dare stand up to you.

As I'm fond of saying, "You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw."

Al

[deg929]

Well, my suggestion would be that you don't lump me into ANY category that you don't know for a fact that I belong in....not something that sets really well with me. I will tell you in this thread, just like I did the last time that I responded to you in the other one, I am not even sure what a neo-con is, not sure that I even care what it is. I know that it sounds like it means new conservative, and Sir, I can assure you that I am far from new when it comes to being a Conservative.
Either way, I don't spout hatred and venom on here......you can't find one post where I have ever done that, and I would venture to say that the same could be said for most of the people on here, so your statements are unfair, and the real irony of all of that is that you go on and on and on and on about civil rights, and racism, and the whole deal. You understand that all of that goes both ways, right? You will never improve the world's situation, nor even yours, in that vein, by trying to give back what you claim not to want yourself.
I strive every day to teach my kids that the Golden Rule doesn't mean that you should do back to someone what they do to you, because that's obviously how that person wants to be treated. What is says is that you are responsible for exactly NO ONE's actions except your own, and regardless of what they do to you, you should still treat them the way that you WANT to be treated. Otherwise, it just becomes a never-ending cesspool cycle of unnecessary stuff going back and forth ad infinitum. What a waste of good constructive energy.
You just have to let some things go, and even if you feel like you're being wronged, sometimes, you've just got to take the high road on something.

Instead of starting a thread and trying to honor Sen Kennedy, you immediately made the whole post about you.....not cool.

[fostever]

This is ironic NeoCon World's Trade Fair 2009 NEOCON the yearly trade show hosted by the Merchandise Mart (owned by guess who) here in Chi-town. Al loves to set himself up for abuse so he can wallow in his self pity. Did you know he's the only insurance agent that isn't in it for his own advancement, only to help the downtrodden find their place in this neoconservative dominated world. Yes Al is the most altruistic, generous, kindly man of integrity you'll ever find. If you don't believe this, just ask him, he'll be happy to tell all about it.

[al3]

Originally Posted by fostever

Al loves to set himself up for abuse so he can wallow in his self pity.

You missed it. Unlike the other agents here that you like to beat-up on, Al refuses to take the kind of verbal abuse that you and your right-wing Limbaugh pals feel that you are entitled to give... by virtue of you being "special."

Yes, son, cowardly little bullies like you and Rivers and Empty and ins.dave and the entire rat's nest of foul-mouthed neo-con jackels that spoil this venue for everyone else... don't like to be challenged... are not used to it... that someone dares stand up to the kind of vituperative racist, homophobic, and xenophobic crap that you and your friends post. You want to go up against me here? Fine. Give it your best shot. But do understand I may be the only one here with the balls to take you down... and I will do that.

I won't hit you first... but I will hit you back. It's the only thing cowards like you understand.

Get used to it or get over it.

[Rivers1]

Originally Posted by al3

Yes, cowardly little bullies like you and Rivers and Empty and ins.dave and the entire rat's nest of foul-mouthed neo-con jackels...

Bullies? Foul-mouthed? WOW, pot meet kettle!

[tcarlj]

Back to the subject at hand. Ted Kennedy was sort of the black sheep of the family who wasnt quite as good as the others. You know, the dumb one with a glazed slack-jawed expression on his face? His brother John was a great man. Possibly made some bad decisions on the Bay of Pigs fiasco, but anyone could have done that. JFK was what I consider to be the last truly great Democrat. I definitely consider JFK to be more conservative than John McCain.

His brother Robert, also a great man. A key player in the civil rights movement for a period of time, and had the cajones to take on the mob. No small thing back in the day.

Ted? Scum that the planet is better off without. His picture should be in the dictionary under limousine liberal. You're fooling yourself if you think he wouldn't do time today for what happened at Chappaquiddic.Which coincidentally, Al, seems to be an issue in this thread you dont even acknowledge, let alone address.

And for your completely random thought for the day...... after hearing this word tossed around all day, why is it that the only people who have compounds are drug lords and the Kennedys?

[Winter]

Originally Posted by tcarlj

Back to the subject at hand. Ted Kennedy was sort of the black sheep of the family who wasnt quite as good as the others. You know, the dumb one with a glazed slack-jawed expression on his face? His brother John was a great man. Possibly made some bad decisions on the Bay of Pigs fiasco, but anyone could have done that. JFK was what I consider to be the last truly great Democrat. I definitely consider JFK to be more conservative than John McCain.

Ted got tagged there on Chappaquiddick. Just your basic drunken splurge with the bimbo of the week and it turned tragic. But I would not put him as worse than JFK. Jack simply made it through some stuff where he could also have gotten tagged badly. For instance he was screwing Judith Exner in the White House who was Sam Giancana's, the mob leaders, girlfriend for gawds sake. This was at the same time that the FBI had a contract with the mob to assassinate Castro and the mob had Hoover over a barrel because they had pictures of him doing oral stuff in New Orleans. JFK and Bobby were also messing around with Marilyn Monroe and it gets a little murky there especially around her death. And then there are another fifty examples behind that much like with Clinton. JFK could have had a Chappaquidick or breach of national security disaster over some bimbo any day of the week.

Other than that, yes, he was a good Catholic like Teddy and their father.

I do agree though that Bobby took on the mob but more importantly he took on Hoover who had his own reasons for not taking on the mob and stood in the way.

JFK was also a full, full, full fledged drug addict controlled by his physician. Between the sex and the drugs there wasnt much left of his pysche that was not owned by someone else.

I do think that Teddy worked very hard in the Senate and was not even remotely lazy. He did his homework and although he was gregarious he worked very hard and down in the details on any legislation that he worked on. He was also extremely bighearted and responsible in relation to Bobby's and Jack's kids. I also think that he hit bottom about fifteen or eighteen years ago and let up on the booze and the womanizing a bit anyway and seemed to have a more decent life with the younger woman he married about that time. Does that mean that he was not a pinko, liberal, windbag who squandered much of his life on booze or women, or that he should not have gone to jail for Chappaquiddick? No. Similarly, I have no trouble acknowledging that Barney and Dodd have some good qualities and maybe not everything they have done is bad and I would not be opposed to a few minutes of reflection on those points before hanging them. Fair and balanced.

This post contains editorial comments.

[armydad]

Originally Posted by stuy119

I find it amusing that anyone is attempting to stand up for someone whose family CONSCIOUSLY made the decision to exploit minorities under the guise of "public service."

Don't believe me? Do some research on the patriarch of the family, Joseph. He taught his boys that exploiting the poor and minorities (due to their larger numbers) would lead to political opportunities to make money in a way that was easier than earning it through good business opportunities and investments, known as "hard work."

The family is filled with scumbags, and they deserve each and every bad incident that happens to them. Karma is a bitch.

This is the most foolish post I have read on this forum. You are a douche bag.

[Charpress]

I don't know. I think you really have to hand it to Ted Kennedy: it is damn hard to dress a dead woman underwater.

[stormtracker]

Al, you must have really liked The Grapes of Wrath-- and Tom Joad. What I am in admiration of is your passion. I am opposed to you politically, but I respect your passion. I felt this same way about all the Kennedy's. I wish they could have been "cleaner" men, but all we know is what the media wants us to know about them. In this vein, Ted was a personal train wreck, but his passion will be all-enduring.

[healthagent]

Originally Posted by Charpress

I don't know. I think you really have to hand it to Ted Kennedy: it is damn hard to dress a dead woman underwater.

In all honesty, this would be one of the toughest calls for anyone to make in their life.

My opinion: He was intoxicated. Period. Now the car's in a lake, girl trapped in the car and you have two decisions:

1) Call the cops. They show up and you're obviously drunk, they run the tests, arrest you and it's 15 to life for manslaughter. Add onto it and you're a senator and a member one one of the most prominent and powerful families in America.

2) Leave the scene until it's out of your system and come up with some cock and bull story knowing that your political power can likely buy your way out.

I'm not sure too many people on this board would have chosen option one: "Yesss ossifer, ok, lemme esplain...."

Where Kennedy was a douche? Putting himself in that position in the first place.

[fostever]

[quote=al3;182977]You missed it. Unlike the other agents here that you like to beat-up on, Al refuses to take the kind of verbal abuse...
Is there more than one of you? AL does this and Al doesn't take that...Judging from your rants I'm led to believe you are a very unstable person that needs professional help. Someone starved for attention seeking recognition at all cost. Actually I don't believe that at all, you're just Al the wacky tobaccy paranoid insurance broker serving the "Left Coast" hippie niche market. Peace and Love brother! And oh yeah Al, you're the only one I try to beat up on here because you ask fer it!

[Patriot]

Originally Posted by al3

I won't hit you first... but I will hit you back.

Are you SURE about that? I may be wrong, but looks to me like you hit first; this is from your FIRST post:

"I'm sure this passing will be of great joy to you neo-cons in this venue who have poured out your hatred of Kennedy, Frank, Obama, and other liberals seeking reform.

Indeed, without the voice (and vote) of Kennedy, you will probably now be able to (again) defeat healthcare reform and see your greed and avarice triumph over those who seek a more just, and more humane society."

Instead, if you had left that out, your post would have been like this:

"One of the great men of my generation passed away this evening. Like all great men he had great flaws. I didn't agree with him on everything but I valued his service to "my" cause.

I've lived through the deaths of JFK (1963), RFK (1968), MLK (1968) and now Ted Kennedy.

A sad day for me... "

WITHOUT the tag of: "a happy one for so many of you here, I'm sure."

My two cents, and you will probably request change...

Two questions:

What about the drowning incident? (That has been asked before.)

Since you are one, I'll ask: Why do liberals think the only solution to so-called greed and avarice is marxist government control, which has failed miserably everywhere it has been tried? That's MY question.

There are MANY more questions from others that are coming up (I'm sure you know that). I'm REALLY interested in hearing the answers.

[AgentOrange]

Ted Kennedy was the baby of the family who became its patriarch; the restless dreamer who became its rock. He was the sunny, joyful child, who bore the brunt of his brothers' teasing, but learned quickly how to brush it off. When they tossed him off a boat because he didn't know what a jib was, six-year-old Teddy got back in and learned to sail. When a photographer asked the newly elected Bobby to step back at a press conference because he was casting a shadow on his younger brother, Teddy quipped, "It'll be the same in Washington."
This spirit of resilience and good humor would see Ted Kennedy through more pain and tragedy than most of us will ever know. He lost two siblings by the age of sixteen. He saw two more taken violently from the country that loved them. He said goodbye to his beloved sister, Eunice, in the final days of his own life. He narrowly survived a plane crash, watched two children struggle with cancer, buried three nephews, and experienced personal failings and setbacks in the most public way possible.
It is a string of events that would have broken a lesser man. And it would have been easy for Teddy to let himself become bitter and hardened; to surrender to self-pity and regret; to retreat from public life and live out his years in peaceful quiet. No one would have blamed him for that.
But that was not Ted Kennedy. As he told us, "(I)ndividual faults and frailties are no excuse to give in — and no exemption from the common obligation to give of ourselves." Indeed, Ted was the "Happy Warrior" that the poet William Wordsworth spoke of when he wrote:
As tempted more; more able to endure,
As more exposed to suffering and distress;
Thence, also, more alive to tenderness.
Through his own suffering, Ted Kennedy became more alive to the plight and suffering of others — the sick child who could not see a doctor; the young soldier sent to battle without armor; the citizen denied her rights because of what she looks like or who she loves or where she comes from. The landmark laws that he championed — the Civil Rights Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, immigration reform, children's health care, the Family and Medical Leave Act — all have a running thread. Ted Kennedy's life's work was not to champion those with wealth or power or special connections. It was to give a voice to those who were not heard; to add a rung to the ladder of opportunity; to make real the dream of our founding. He was given the gift of time that his brothers were not, and he used that gift to touch as many lives and right as many wrongs as the years would allow.

[Winter]

Originally Posted by AgentOrange

Ted Kennedy was the baby of the family who became its patriarch; the restless dreamer who became its rock. He was the sunny, joyful child, who bore the brunt of his brothers' teasing, but learned quickly how to brush it off. When they tossed him off a boat because he didn't know what a jib was, six-year-old Teddy got back in and learned to sail. When a photographer asked the newly elected Bobby to step back at a press conference because he was casting a shadow on his younger brother, Teddy quipped, "It'll be the same in Washington."
This spirit of resilience

I can meet you more than halfway and say that Kennedy probably used the last 15-20 years of his life well and that he continued to dig in and work and serve his country based on his views when tragedy could have broken him.

However, as far as Ted showing early signs of resilience and character that is just some kind of campaign brochure talk. His brothers teased him and he learned quickly to brush it off? Oh, a great big boo-hoo to him. Most kids did in some form or another.

The truth is that he was a spoiled little turd who went to Harvard because his daddy got him in and then when he could not pass a spanish course he hired someone to take the test for him (and this would be just the time he got caught). For this he was expelled, During that time he was in the Army doing penance because Harvard said he could reapply/be readmitted at a future date. His job in the Army? Daddy got him a job as an honor guard at Nato headquarters in Paris. Rough, real rough. So much for the "resilient" young Ted Kennedy. I am sure that his shortcoming caused him to do much reflection while sailing off the Vineyard in the sailboat daddy bought him as a teenager.

The truth is he suffered from deep,deep character flaws his entire life. People say "well no one is perfect so who can judge others.? Okay, well, if you cheated in college or walked away from a drowning woman who possibly could have been saved (see coroner's report) then dont judge him lest you be judged. Otherwise most of us judge the character of public officials as part of the process of deciding their worthiness whether Kennedy, John Edwards, or Mark Sanford or Larry Craig. Again, if you hang around airport men's rooms then maybe you should not judge lest you be judged. Most of us do not.

[Charpress]

Bumper sticker from the 70s when Ted was leading the fight against any more nuclear facilities (before Chernobyl, of course):

"More people have died in Ted Kennedy's car than in nuclear accidents"

I just wonder how much better off we might be today if Kennedy had not led the fight against clean electric and against having any windmills spoiling his ocean view.

[Mr. Bill]

Another perspective:

Trust Fund Teddy

Ethel C. Fenig
Writing in the American Spectator, Daniel Flynn sums up the "lion of the Senate" with this eulogy .Although Ted Kennedy (D-MA) did some good, it is a bracing corrective to the teary eyed, skewed romanticism put forth by the mostly Kennedy loving liberal press that naturally follows a painful demise of one of their own.

Insulated by the consequences of his behavior, Kennedy was also shielded from the consequences of his policies. He was the champion of busing who kept his own children far from the public schools; an advocate of publicly funded campaigns who bankrolled his political career with his family's shadowy financing; an icon of feminists who used women like Kleenex, serially harassed members of the opposite sex, and spent ten hours attempting to rescue his political career as he denied the young women suffocating in an air pocket in his Oldsmobile professional rescue attempts; and the primary booster of socialized medicine who assembled a dream team of neurosurgeons to consult on his treatment for brain cancer. The proverbial limousine liberal was made real in Trustfund Ted.

Not to mention paying someone to take his college Spanish final which got him kicked out of Harvard, passing an immigration bill that has greatly increased welfare and social costs, conducting traitorous negotiations with Soviet Russia behind the duly elected President Reagan's back, and of course his poisonous "In Robert Bork's America" speech which has warped the Supreme Court nomination process.

And speaking of trust funds--just where is the Kennedy wealth incorporated? And how much inheritance tax will his heirs have to pay? Was this taken care of well prior to his expected death in the same way Kennedy took care to change the law to guarantee a friendly successor?

Just asking.