- 1,410
I believe it. Non med term is the most over priced product in the industry & it's sold to healthy people. Carriers are making a killing on this.
Anyone Familiar W/Symmetry Financial Group?
- Thread starter Agent Barry
- Start date
I believe it. Non med term is the most over priced product in the industry & it's sold to healthy people. Carriers are making a killing on this.
- 1,912
We had more than three make club 35, I know for sure that the number 1 and number 4 agent out of all contracted agents for AmAm came from NorthStar. Last year we had the 1 and 3 spot.
Yes, I knew you had more than 3 who made Club 35, but my question was where your top 3 agents placed. I thought I'd read sometime back that your top 3 placed 1,2 and 3 with Am-Am for 2016 production.
- 1,912
We were close, but didnt get all three spots.
Will you be in Barcelona this year with us?
StevenHazel
New Member
- 13
I've been with Symmetry for a couple months now. I started at a FE company but as a new agent did not do very well due to lack of training. Symmetry's focus on training and development and the availability of your upline makes it a great option for new agents. The "Rah-Rah" is also good for staying motivated, something which is often difficult for new agents and keeps them in the business.
I attended the national conference in January and I have to say I was impressed by the number of people who were solid producers. Out of 1,500 attendees, over 70 were Agency Owners (50K AP/Month + 7 writers) with many more soon to be. Over half of the attendees were probably new, so this looks like good odds to me.
This will be my second week of over 4k in AP. I still work full time at another job so I am limited with what I can give to SFG. I can say that I've listened to the audios obsessively and went to every training event and I've done what I've been told. I have 4 agents in the process of getting their license so this will help raise my commission levels.
Simplified issue obviously pays the fastest, so that is what we want to write the most of. It's also often best for the client. There are times, however, when full underwriting is necessary, so this lengthens the pipeline a bit but once it starts coming out the other end I should be ready to quit my job and go full time with Symmetry.
I know there are a lot of criticisms of this model. But I personally know quite a few "bottom tier" agents who are doing pretty good for themselves. If you want to build your own agency, you can do far better. If you just want to produce and not build, SFG may not be the place for you. The low starting contract pays off in the long run when you are collecting overrides.
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Also, some of the math elucidated previously is off. Let me correct. Let me also say that the only thing that keeps people from earning 6 figures a year with Symmetry is their own lack of desire or effort. Not everyone wants to make 6 figures. That's ok. But for anyone who does, here is the blueprint.
$325/week in leads (10 new A leads and 8 $5 leads with 50 Fifty cent leads) will yield 15 appointments if you make the required number of dials.
15 appointments will yield 10 sits. A beginning agent should be closing at least half of his sits, so we'll say 5 apps. Average AP is about $1,000. Assuming a 90% issue rate (should be easy if you're calling for risk assessments) you have $4500 in AP weekly. Assuming a persistency of 90%, we can round down to $4,000 in weekly issue/paid AP.
$4,000 per week in AP at an entry level 60% is $2,400. With a 75% advance it's $1,800. Minus the $325 you spent on leads, you have a weekly income of $1,475 X 50 weeks is $73,750 advanced. The remaining $30,000 that wasn't advanced will be paid in months 10, 11 and 12 which will bring you to an annual income of $103,750.
However, if you're doing $5,000 in written AP per week, you will easily hit the $25,000/month a couple times which will bring you up to an 80% contract level.
$4,000 (issue paid) X 80% contract is $3,200 X 75% advance is $2,400 weekly - $325 in lead costs = $2,075 weekly income. X 50 weeks is $103,750. The remaining 25% of the $3,200 is paid in months 10-12 which is an additional $40,000 for a total annual income of $143,750.
Could the same number of sales earn more money with a different company at a higher contract? Yes, but only if you had a source of good leads for a good price that will let you set 15 appointments a week. The numbers get even better once you have hired a few agents who contribute to your monthly APV, thus pushing your contract level higher and you start earning overrides as passive income.
Hope this is clear and you have found it helpful.
I attended the national conference in January and I have to say I was impressed by the number of people who were solid producers. Out of 1,500 attendees, over 70 were Agency Owners (50K AP/Month + 7 writers) with many more soon to be. Over half of the attendees were probably new, so this looks like good odds to me.
This will be my second week of over 4k in AP. I still work full time at another job so I am limited with what I can give to SFG. I can say that I've listened to the audios obsessively and went to every training event and I've done what I've been told. I have 4 agents in the process of getting their license so this will help raise my commission levels.
Simplified issue obviously pays the fastest, so that is what we want to write the most of. It's also often best for the client. There are times, however, when full underwriting is necessary, so this lengthens the pipeline a bit but once it starts coming out the other end I should be ready to quit my job and go full time with Symmetry.
I know there are a lot of criticisms of this model. But I personally know quite a few "bottom tier" agents who are doing pretty good for themselves. If you want to build your own agency, you can do far better. If you just want to produce and not build, SFG may not be the place for you. The low starting contract pays off in the long run when you are collecting overrides.
----------
Also, some of the math elucidated previously is off. Let me correct. Let me also say that the only thing that keeps people from earning 6 figures a year with Symmetry is their own lack of desire or effort. Not everyone wants to make 6 figures. That's ok. But for anyone who does, here is the blueprint.
$325/week in leads (10 new A leads and 8 $5 leads with 50 Fifty cent leads) will yield 15 appointments if you make the required number of dials.
15 appointments will yield 10 sits. A beginning agent should be closing at least half of his sits, so we'll say 5 apps. Average AP is about $1,000. Assuming a 90% issue rate (should be easy if you're calling for risk assessments) you have $4500 in AP weekly. Assuming a persistency of 90%, we can round down to $4,000 in weekly issue/paid AP.
$4,000 per week in AP at an entry level 60% is $2,400. With a 75% advance it's $1,800. Minus the $325 you spent on leads, you have a weekly income of $1,475 X 50 weeks is $73,750 advanced. The remaining $30,000 that wasn't advanced will be paid in months 10, 11 and 12 which will bring you to an annual income of $103,750.
However, if you're doing $5,000 in written AP per week, you will easily hit the $25,000/month a couple times which will bring you up to an 80% contract level.
$4,000 (issue paid) X 80% contract is $3,200 X 75% advance is $2,400 weekly - $325 in lead costs = $2,075 weekly income. X 50 weeks is $103,750. The remaining 25% of the $3,200 is paid in months 10-12 which is an additional $40,000 for a total annual income of $143,750.
Could the same number of sales earn more money with a different company at a higher contract? Yes, but only if you had a source of good leads for a good price that will let you set 15 appointments a week. The numbers get even better once you have hired a few agents who contribute to your monthly APV, thus pushing your contract level higher and you start earning overrides as passive income.
Hope this is clear and you have found it helpful.
Does that mean one of Riddle's telesales agents ranked two or three?
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Steven,
According to SFG's own numbers (manually counted, so they may be off +/- a few in each category):
They had 1821+/- contracted agents/managers who submitted personal business from 1.1 through 12.23.2016,
of which...
148+/- of those agents had debt balances (totaling over $1.1 million) at year end, due to chargebacks
1073+/- agents submitted less than $10,000 for the year.
That = 58.9% of ALL agents who submitted LESS THAN $10,000 in business!
272+/- agents submitted between $10,001 & $50,000
129+/- agents submitted between $50,001 & $100,000
50+/- agents submitted between $100,001 & $150,000
99+/- agents are listed as Leaders/Managers
Based on SFG's own reports, the reality is only a negligible percent of SFG agents follow your blueprint ($4,000 a week/$210,000 a year in issued business) and actually earn $100,000 with their own pen. IMHO, it is misleading to suggest that "the only thing that keeps people from earning 6 figures a year with Symmetry is their own lack of desire or effort." In fact, if your assertion is accurate, SFG has a huge problem with their recruiting system, because, based on your belief, the numbers suggest they are attracting primarily lazy, unmotivated individuals.
I understand you have spent the past couple of months guzzling the SFG MLM (Corporate Overview) kool-aid. How much time did you devote to actually researching the company and it's leaders to get a balanced view, before you began recruiting your down-line?
ETA: And more importantly, how much money are you tucking away to cover the chargebacks that will roll-up to you as agents in your down-line leave the business?
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My old boss Ian is a SFG agency owner. Prior to that he ran an office for Great American senior benefits and before that he was a banker life and casualty manager. This new gig seems right up his alley and they still find suckers like NSRH. Actually NSRH's post makes me think he's not a noobie there making money. He's probably a recruiter selling false dreams.
StevenHazel
New Member
- 13
Your numbers are probably pretty accurate, but what they show is that there are a lot of people who get their insurance license and then don't do much with it. I'm sure that's not news to you though, is it? This isn't just SFG this happens with. Especially considering SFG hires so many newly licensed agents, it shouldn't be surprising that the majority of people who get contracted don't do much. It's the nature of the business.
I still stand by my previous assertion that those who do what is required will make over 100K a year. It's not hard. I'm brand new and work 50 hours a week at another job and I am finding good success on my own with only a few hours a week.
Do you really think the 58% who submitted less than 10k failed because there was something too difficult about it? No. Either they didn't want to work very much (nothing wrong with that) or they quit or became discouraged. I've submitted close to that in just a couple months part time so you can't tell me there's anything stopping anyone.
In my previous position, we drove around in ghettos knocking on doors selling FE. I knew guys who were making 150 a year doing it. I made the decision that even if i knew I would make that much, it wouldn't be worth it. So just because something is possible, doesn't mean people are going to be willing to do it.
Steven,
The main issue I had with your post is your claim that the only thing that keeps people from earning 6 figures a year with Symmetry is their own lack of desire or effort."
In 2016, 82% of agents did not make a living wage w/SFG and over 90% did not earn a six figure income with their own pen, contrary to the "fuzzy math" shown in the Blueprint you posted. I call it fuzzy for several reasons:
a). SFG Newbies do not have access to A-Leads. More importantly, there are a limited number of MP A-Leads being received on a monthly basis in any given territory. SFG issues A-Leads to their highest producers. That's good business.
b). $325.00 worth of leads will yield 15 appointments IF you make the required number of dials is laughable, because success occurs only when preparation meets opportunity. Activity yields nothing.
c). Only the top agents in the industry get 90% of their business issued/paid.
d). Only a small percentage of agents in the industry enjoy a 90% persistency rate, which you "assume" in that blueprint.
The claims made in the blueprint you posted even contradicts SFG's Agent Handbook. It refers to 85% issue rate and 65% net placed rate (after cancellations/chargebacks).
In fact, during the first 9 weeks of this year, one of SFG's Associate Partner's (aren't there only a couple of APs?) entire downline only had 3 agents who've submitted $5000.00 per week (average). Their 5th top producer has averaged $2570.00 a week and their 10th top producer has averaged $1432.00 a week. And those numbers are Submitted business, not Issued/Paid. SFG avoids all references to Issue/Paid when they recognize production, yet the only thing that results in income is Issued/Paid business.
I believe you are finding the process "not hard", however you are not a newbie in the industry. You struggled through your learning curve prior to joining SFG. I also think those struggles are one of the reasons you appreciate your SFG position.
SFG primarily preys on true newbies and promotes "A recruit isn't a recruit until they have a recruit." And imho, the main reason over 82% of those who joined SFG last year did not earn a living wage, is because they were newbies, ill prepared by their recruiter for what their true expectations should be and most of them did not have the financial reserves they needed in order to successfully launch their careers.
ETA: The blueprint also did not take into account all of the expenses involved in being a field agent. Yet another example of "fuzzy math."
The main issue I had with your post is your claim that the only thing that keeps people from earning 6 figures a year with Symmetry is their own lack of desire or effort."
In 2016, 82% of agents did not make a living wage w/SFG and over 90% did not earn a six figure income with their own pen, contrary to the "fuzzy math" shown in the Blueprint you posted. I call it fuzzy for several reasons:
a). SFG Newbies do not have access to A-Leads. More importantly, there are a limited number of MP A-Leads being received on a monthly basis in any given territory. SFG issues A-Leads to their highest producers. That's good business.
b). $325.00 worth of leads will yield 15 appointments IF you make the required number of dials is laughable, because success occurs only when preparation meets opportunity. Activity yields nothing.
c). Only the top agents in the industry get 90% of their business issued/paid.
d). Only a small percentage of agents in the industry enjoy a 90% persistency rate, which you "assume" in that blueprint.
The claims made in the blueprint you posted even contradicts SFG's Agent Handbook. It refers to 85% issue rate and 65% net placed rate (after cancellations/chargebacks).
In fact, during the first 9 weeks of this year, one of SFG's Associate Partner's (aren't there only a couple of APs?) entire downline only had 3 agents who've submitted $5000.00 per week (average). Their 5th top producer has averaged $2570.00 a week and their 10th top producer has averaged $1432.00 a week. And those numbers are Submitted business, not Issued/Paid. SFG avoids all references to Issue/Paid when they recognize production, yet the only thing that results in income is Issued/Paid business.
I believe you are finding the process "not hard", however you are not a newbie in the industry. You struggled through your learning curve prior to joining SFG. I also think those struggles are one of the reasons you appreciate your SFG position.
SFG primarily preys on true newbies and promotes "A recruit isn't a recruit until they have a recruit." And imho, the main reason over 82% of those who joined SFG last year did not earn a living wage, is because they were newbies, ill prepared by their recruiter for what their true expectations should be and most of them did not have the financial reserves they needed in order to successfully launch their careers.
ETA: The blueprint also did not take into account all of the expenses involved in being a field agent. Yet another example of "fuzzy math."
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StevenHazel
New Member
- 13
Most newbies have access to bonus leads where you can set the same number of appointments for less money but you'll spend more time on the phone.
With enough phone calls anyone can set 15 appointments. It may take a few hundred 50 cent leads but it can be done. This also assumes the agent is practiced on their phone script which again assumed effort and preparation on their end. They have to put time into training with their upline.
Every carrier we have does disk assessments and any agent that does this regularly will have 90% issued. Again if they fail to the blame falls on them, not the company. I haven't had one policy declined.
The company may have 65% issue rates but you have also shown that most new agents there screw off and don't do things they should like risk assessments.
You're probably right. This probably does seem easier to me because of my initial struggles but I also see that SFG has an excellent training program that I didn't find at my first position. That is why I say emphatically that the only thing stopping ppl from success here is their own lack of desire or effort. This isn't company Kool aid because they don't word it like that. This is my experience.
I've been a hard worker my whole life and seeing the money that can be made with a well structured insurance position is very impressive.
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