Brokering With Penn Mutual

[shooter]

Do any of you guys broker with Penn Mutual?
I am looking for a Mutual for some WL clients that like the PUA concept.
How is their underwriting and can you sale their term and GUL in competitive situations?
Last but never least. A nice commission would make the medicine go down easier.
I haven't seen a BGA that markets them, would you have to go through a Penn Ga?

I don't want a big commitment to fulfill with a Mutual just when I feel it is the beat fit for the client.
One more weapon in the arsenal. .
Thanks guys.

Shooter

 

[sell more life]

Do any of you guys broker with Penn Mutual?
I am looking for a Mutual for some WL clients that like the PUA concept.
How is their underwriting and can you sale their term and GUL in competitive situations?
Last but never least. A nice commission would make the medicine go down easier.
I haven't seen a BGA that markets them, would you have to go through a Penn Ga?

I don't want a big commitment to fulfill with a Mutual just when I feel it is the beat fit for the client.
One more weapon in the arsenal. .
Thanks guys.

Shooter

My IMO specializes in IUL...I can tell you that Penn's IUL is one of the worst commission schedules in the IUL sector--Max commission is 50% of target premium...this less-than-attractive commission policy may (or may not) extend to Penn's other products...will the client look at an IUL? Write me privately and I can give you the most non-partisan CV historical ranking that I have yet found for IUL's...

 

[BNTRS]

Why use Penn? There are a lot of other more attractive companies out there.

 

[Julieslife]

My IMO specializes in IUL...I can tell you that Penn's IUL is one of the worst commission schedules in the IUL sector--Max commission is 50% of target premium...this less-than-attractive commission policy may (or may not) extend to Penn's other products...will the client look at an IUL? Write me privately and I can give you the most non-partisan CV historical ranking that I have yet found for IUL's...

We're getting 90% on target premium here in the midwest. I deal directly with them. I think they have a sound product and decent service. To me, a strong Comdex rating makes a difference. I want a company that offers good products, with good commissions and service. Penn seems to meet that standard as one company I will work with.

 

[scagnt83]

I have become more and more convinced that Penn has the best IUL out there hands down; combine that with their Comdex rating of 96%, and you have an extremely strong combination.

Their only flaw is that they are not as large as some of the other players (smaller surplus).


13% cap (strong history), 2% guarantee (this is what makes it better than all the "no-cap" products; take a look at a 40 year historical and look at all the 0% or negative years), wash loans, 10 year surrender, and a 5.25% fixed rate (higher than most performance ULs)


But I have found comp to be a problem.

All I ever hear is 60%.... and then there is some kind of expense allowance it seems that no IMO or GA I have spoken to wants to fully tell me about....

Every time I speak to someone about contracting they always say "let me show you this Aviva product with no cap and high commissions..." which of course pisses me the hell off!!!!

Hell, the regional office for Penn didnt even mention the expense at all..


But it appears to be a great product.

 

[SaleMaster76]

Why use Penn? There are a lot of other more attractive companies out there.

I have to agree an that one.

 

[arnguy]

I have to agree

Just to be contrary, I disagree. Insurancetoday, are you trying to build up your post count with these innocuous posts?

 

[BNTRS]

All I ever hear is 60%.... and then there is some kind of expense allowance it seems that no IMO or GA I have spoken to wants to fully tell me about....

It goes by a lot of different names but essentially is an expense "reimbursement" which is the technical jargon used to get around the word commission. The idea is, you are entitled to it as a broker since you don't eat up the regular expenses a career agent would. The practical application is higher compensation. The GA as you know is paid a certain amount per case submitted, and can adjust the amount he or she keeps (and pass more on to you) as he/she sees fit. Traditionally, this is quoted in terms of like FYC. Some times added to the FYC you'd be paid, other times just as a bonus percentage to the premium based on a grid. The arrangements are really up to the person handing the money out. My arrangement could be 80% and yours 85% simply because someone like you more than they do me.

 

[shooter]

Why use Penn? There are a lot of other more attractive companies out there.

Ok name who you have in mind.

I was interested in Penn for their GUL, and Par WL.
Plus as a broker I wouldn't have to maintain a production requirement.
It seems I have to deal with more companies to stay competitive.
When I run a GUL on Compulife they are very competitive.
Who do you use for Par WL, and GUL?
Shooter

 

[CFP83]

I'm really surprised by some of the post here on this thread. We all know that advice is only as good as the information it is based upon....hope I can help. By the way, there are several good conversations about Penn Mutual already on this board which can easily be found by using the search function.

Shooter, l would like to address your original question as best as I can from my understanding of what your looking for. For the purposes of full disclosure, my B/D and career contract (a very liberal one) is with a large "east-coast" mutual, not Penn Mutual.

Penn Mutual seem to have become known as the UL mutual company. To most of us in the industry this sounds about as real as a unicorn but it doesn't take too long a look at their product portfolio to see this. Without question Penn has the best Universal Life Insurance portfolio of any mutual company....and, in my opinion is only rivaled by maybe two public companies. Here's why I say this...

• Standard Broker compensation on Whole, Term, GUL, and IUL is 90%. Long story short, if anyone on this forum or anywhere for that matter is getting less than this you are officially getting shafted. Comp goes up to 100% (all products) if your doing a nice level of production as a broker. Penn Mutual officially pulled out of the BGA/IMO brokerage world in early 2009 to focus on brokers doing business solely with brokerage directors. These are simply General Agents of Penn Mutual that solely work with brokers. If an IMO is offering Penn they simply have a contract through a brokerage director, which you could do yourself and avoid the middle-man! I would be glad to refer you to the Regional IFN director that my team and I work with here in Ohio, who will treat you fairly and give you this compensation day one with absolutely no production requirements.
• The GUL product is the only GUL I have found that does an excellent job of cash accumulation. Current interest rate on this product is 5.25%. Target Premiums are very competitive as are their rates. I have a one-pager around here somewhere comparing this product to the rest of the industry I'll attach to this post.
• Like Scagnt83, I see the biggest differentiator of Penn's IUL being their 2% floor coupled with the 13% cap. The cap may not be the industries highest but having that 2% minimum makes all the difference in 20,30, and 40 year "average returns". The product also has a fixed account that the client can choose to put funds into (5.25%, same as the GUL).
• Participating whole life product, they have one and only one product....kind of different for a mutual company. Within this one product you can have it paid-up at age 65 or age 100...depending on what you are trying to accomplish. Waiver of premium rider is own-occ for life....very rare within the industry. Overall, I would say this product is competive but behind Guardian, Mass, and Northwestern Mutual.
• Term rates seem to consistently come back as the cheapest of any of the mutuals.

I'm very much an "industry geak", kind of like Rick over at TGP. I spend a lot of time reading VitalSigns reports, evaluating companies ratings changes, and studying their financials. At the end of the day I never want to have to apologize for any recommendation I make to a client, therefor as their advocate, I do the research necessary to ensure this. I have found Penn Mutual to be one of the best kept secrets in the industry....the secret part though seems to be changing very quickly as the company has reported north of 40% life insurance sales growth for 2009 and then again in 2010. In terms of Penn's Life Insurance book of business (inforce policies), they are roughly 1/8 as big as MassMutual, NYL, and Northwestern....they are about 1/2 to 1/3 the size of Guardian. Size is a consideration in the overall picture, however it isn't one of the most important factors in my mind.