Dividend-paying WL

[BNTRS]

Still looks like smoke and mirrors to me. I'll tell you what, you send me a $100 a month and I will give you back $30 a month. You can go around all you want and tell people that I'm giving you $30 a month. We won't mention the $100 you're paying me so that I can seem like this swell guy that gives out $30 a month.

So really I'm giving you $70 a month.

Keep in mind 90% of the business I do focuses on leveraging PUA's in a par-whole life policy to use it as a low risk asset class as part of someone's portfolio. So we're in very different markets. Still if you want numbers here are some actuals. Note the total dividend columns. It totally works, and remains within focus to the original question at hand.

 

[VolAgent]

Still looks like smoke and mirrors to me. I'll tell you what, you send me a $100 a month and I will give you back $30 a month. You can go around all you want and tell people that I'm giving you $30 a month. We won't mention the $100 you're paying me so that I can seem like this swell guy that gives out $30 a month.

Taking dividends in cash is not where the magic happens. It is when you use them for PUAs and let it snowball.

I love RNAs 20 pay, it is a great product. But its uses are not the same as Mass Mutuals L65, 10 Pay or Ohio National's Prestige Max. One gets you some of the cheapest fire and forget lifetime death benefit on the planet. The others will build cash like a monster. It is all about finding the right solution to the problem, versus putting round pegs in square holes.

 

[0b1kanobee]

I recently saw an inforce statement from a NWM policy that was taken out 38 years ago originally for $11,000 DB.

All I can say is it has blown the doors off what they gauranteed it would do and I'm just a little jealous my mom didn't take one out for me.

If one is skilled in the art of WL insurance and has the prospects for it, it's a pretty bad arse tool/weapon in retirement IMHO and to get prospects excited about.

I still need to learn much more about it but from what I have seen so far I'm extremely impressed. I never understood what some of these WL guys were so excited about but now I know.

 

[xrac]

So really I'm giving you $70 a month.

Keep in mind 90% of the business I do focuses on leveraging PUA's in a par-whole life policy to use it as a low risk asset class as part of someone's portfolio. So we're in very different markets. Still if you want numbers here are some actuals. Note the total dividend columns. It totally works, and remains within focus to the original question at hand.

Looking at the Guardian table after 8 years the client has now paid in less in premiums than the total cash value. From that point forward the cash begins to build substantially. The death benefit is increasing. There is no market risk and there are no taxes.

 

[LGilmore]

JD,

The other thing is RNA is a fraternal. While I'm sure you'll cite all sorts of stuff and they do on the website. The fact that they are a fraternal and they CAN make changes down the road simply doesn't work for me. I'm one of those who doesn't trust insurance carriers and wants some controls and restrictions on them. I like the fact that after 2 years, what ever happens to my policy is my decision. I don't like even a hint that my carrier could make changes to my policy down the road without my consent.

But hey, that's just me.

You've mentioned you work the FE market and RNA is hot stuff there. I don't work the FE market so I don't know if it does or not. RNA could be the best thing since sliced bread. But many companies are.

 

[Larry Tew]

That's interesting. I always thought a company had to be huge to get an A+

What is an example of a smaller size company with an A+?

These are the A+'s in descending order of size as of year end 2010:
Companion Life Ins Co
HCC Life Ins Co
National Benefit Life Ins Co
Pioneer Mutual Life Ins Co
American Family Life Assur NY
COUNTRY Investors Life Assur
Companion Life Ins Co
Securian Life Ins Co
First United American Life Ins
Continental American Ins Co
United World Life Ins Co
Parker Centennial Assur Co
Perico Life Ins Co
Fort Dearborn Life Ins Co NY
National Income Life Ins
Sun Life & Health Ins Co US
Principal National Life Ins Co
Berkley Life & Health Ins Co
Niagara Life & Health Ins Co

Here are the A's:
Texas Life Ins Co
Provident Life & Casualty
Golden Rule Ins Co
Protective Life Ins NY
First Symetra Nat Life Ins NY
U S Financial Life Ins Co
Blue Shield of CA Life & Hlth
AXA Equitable Life & Ann
London Life Reins Co
Standard Life & Acc Ins
Pacific Guardian Life Co Ltd
Family Service Life Ins Co
CIGNA Life Ins Co of New York
Combined Life Ins Co of NY
USAble Life
SCOR Global Life Re Ins Co TX
Anthem Life Ins Co
Park Avenue Life Ins Co
Unimerica Ins Co
Standard Life Ins of NY
National Security Life & Ann
American General Assur Co
Colorado Bankers Life Ins Co
First Reliance Standard Life
Continental Life Brentwood TN
Independence Life & Ann Co
American Nat'l Life Ins Texas
Garden State Life Ins Co
Amalgamated Life Ins Co
First Ameritas Life of NY
American Medical Security Life
CIGNA Health & Life Ins Co
Sentry Life Ins Co of New York
American Continental Ins Co
CIGNA Worldwide Ins Co
Greater Georgia Life Ins Co
Advance Ins Co of Kansas
Bluebonnet Life Ins Co
American National Life Ins
Sentinel American Life Ins Co
Florida Combined Life Ins Co
Unimerica Life Ins Co of NY
Pan-American Assur Co
Anthem Life & Disability Ins
Allianz Life & Ann Co
Patriot Life Ins Co
CIGNA Arbor Life Ins Co

Some of these may be smaller offshoots of bigger companies, and granted, most of these are not household names.

 

[AllGold]

big list.........

Some of these may be smaller offshoots of bigger companies, and granted, most of these are not household names.

Yes, some of those are definitely large companies and we're probably seeing an offshoot.

For example: American Family Life Assur NY

Quack!
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Another question, I almost hate to ask this....

Finding appointment information with Guardian and Lafayette is proving to be more difficult than I expected. I don't see a direct option with Guardian and I haven't heard back yet on Lafayette. Neither are an option with my usual suspect FMOs. Any recommendations for an FMO?

Thanks again.

 

[BNTRS]

Another question, I almost hate to ask this....

Finding appointment information with Guardian and Lafayette is proving to be more difficult than I expected. I don't see a direct option with Guardian and I haven't heard back yet on Lafayette. Neither are an option with my usual suspect FMOs. Any recommendations for an FMO?

Thanks again.

No FMO's for either one. With Guardian you'll appoint through your local GA. For LLIC, you'll contract as a PPGA

You can look up your LLIC RVP here:

RSVP Regions

Seriously though, look at ONL and Penn mutual as well:

Ohio National Online

Home

 

[Larry Tew]

No FMO's for either one. With Guardian you'll appoint through your local GA. For LLIC, you'll contract as a PPGA

You can look up your LLIC RVP here:

RSVP Regions

Seriously though, look at ONL and Penn mutual as well:

Ohio National Online

Home

I 2nd this. I usually don't make a recommendation in threads like this because half the posters answer the question by just parroting their primary company with no rhyme or reason specific to the situation, but BNTRS is right.

My primary is Oho National, so obviously they are my choice. They aren't going to offer as much in the small face amounts as Lafayette, but their products illustrate as good as all the companies (Guardian, Lafayette, Penn) and definitely better than Lafayette. When you're illustrating cash flow, they illustrate better than Guardian. As a matter of fact, Full Disclosure showed that based on retirement income stream, ON's Prestige Max was best or 2nd best of all the companies with Penn being the other.

It really depends on your situation and who you'll be writing. One thing I don't quite get is why you would want to broker Guardian life products. The Guardian FR Plan (career) is rich (albeit quirky on vesting and lapse sensitive) but as a broker you'll get 55-60% minus benefits. I'm not sure what Penn does for brokers, but ON and Lafayette are built from the ground up for brokers / independents - assuming you're not in a ON career state.

Any of you Guardian brokers feel free to correct me if I missed something.

 

[Justin Bilyj]

Anybody know where I can find ON contracts?