Don't Work With Pinney Insurance

If you read their side they sound like they have a convincing argument; Jeff and his agents didnt submit business over a year, tried to make a competing product/process and used company emails to push it forward except they got caught, fired, and are out overrides that terminate at the end of written receipt of the contract which they did with Jeff. Maybe Im wrong interpreting these 2 sides of the story, but it's some good reading!
 
The thing that gets me in the Pinney link, is that they talk about an EMPLOYMENT agreement/handbook. If you are an EMPLOYEE of a company (paid W2 vs 1099), and you shift business elsewhere, that's a conflict of interest and can be subject to immediate termination.

Which would mean that the down line would NATURALLY be transferred away, but kept under the hierarchy of the employing company.

Commissions should still be paid on personal production/labor, but due to a breach of "employment" contract, overrides on down line business can rightfully be forfeited that had not yet been paid on "as earned" business. I believe that's what Jeff said has happened, but doesn't like that he isn't being paid overrides on downline agent production anymore.

This is depending on the nature of the business contract (employment?) with Pinney. Looks like, according to the SellTermLife link, there were unspecified contracts at play:

We were paying a non-contractually-obligated override on Jeff’s largely passive recruiting efforts (consisting of an occasional blog post, podcast, or referral to one of our brokerage managers). This was done to incentivize his continued partnership with Pinney, and encourage him to continue promoting the same services and processes he was using to others. However, in light of his dismantling his hierarchy, eliminating carrier contracts, and moving agents, that is no longer feasible. We discussed this with Jeff in December of 2016, at which time he claimed ignorance of these changes, that he wasn’t involved (laying blame on our former brokerage manager), or that he was independent and could do what he wanted relative to carrier contracts (“it’s a business decision”). We agreed that he was independent and could do as he wished, but that there were ramifications to doing so.

Gotta read and/or have contracts in place that are legally binding.


Regarding the label of being "unethical" - that's serious. The context should be a complaint between company/agent... but in financial services, it could be perceived (without reading further) that Jeff's conduct is unethical with his clients. This is a breach of contract between agent and company... not a reflection of conduct with clients. IMO, saying "unethical" in financial services is the equivalent of yelling "Fire" in a theater.

Just a note that I have no affiliation with Pinney or Jeff Root in any capacity. Just calling it out as I see it.
 
So the allegation is not that commissions were withheld, but overrides. Since I'm not in a position to worry about overrides why is this an issue.

I've never had issues with the CURRENT people working with Pinney.

Rick
 
If you read their side they sound like they have a convincing argument; Jeff and his agents didnt submit business over a year, tried to make a competing product/process and used company emails to push it forward except they got caught, fired, and are out overrides that terminate at the end of written receipt of the contract which they did with Jeff. Maybe Im wrong interpreting these 2 sides of the story, but it's some good reading!

Maybe I should have gone counterpoint for counterpoint. Definitely not interpreting correctly. Let me try to clarify what you're referring to.

We did submit business. A lot of business. Placed $600k in 2016 with Pinney (look at the image in my article). And even placed a significant amount the 30 days prior to them terminating my contracts on 1/16/2017 with at least $75k placed in Dec 2016/January 2017 with leads from my website. Did we submit all our business there, no...but I never submitted everything to Pinney in the history of me being there. The key here is I continued my relationship with Pinney and was submitting a lot of business when they decided to not pay my overrides.

About the competing product. He's talking about a brokerage director, not me. When he got fired in March 2016, I still sent business over and placed over $400k after that and was paid overrides through December 2016. I was never a w2 or employee of Pinney and had nothing to do with that situation.

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The thing that gets me in the Pinney link, is that they talk about an EMPLOYMENT agreement/handbook. If you are an EMPLOYEE of a company (paid W2 vs 1099), and you shift business elsewhere, that's a conflict of interest and can be subject to immediate termination.

I was never an employee. I was 1099 for all 6+ years with a contract in place. I think you're confusing the brokerage director (separate person) with me.

Also, it's important to know the timeline:

3/2016 - Pinney fires the w2 brokerage director.
3/2016 - 1/2017: I'm continued to be paid overrides and my agents are still submitting daily business over there. Some have left, but many I kept there.

Pinney is saying it's "non-contractually-obligated override", but like I showed in my original post here, it is contractually obligated and I have the contract in hand.

Regarding the unethical comment of me against Pinney. I think that speaking at MDRT (need to qualify with written production) without writing any business and mentoring agents without any experience is unethical. So are all the reasons I outlined on the original post.

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So the allegation is not that commissions were withheld, but overrides. Since I'm not in a position to worry about overrides why is this an issue.

I've never had issues with the CURRENT people working with Pinney.

Rick


Like I said, the Pinney employees are great. Love them. It's their owner and his son that are doing all of this.
 
If you read their side they sound like they have a convincing argument; Jeff and his agents didnt submit business over a year, tried to make a competing product/process and used company emails to push it forward except they got caught, fired, and are out overrides that terminate at the end of written receipt of the contract which they did with Jeff. Maybe Im wrong interpreting these 2 sides of the story, but it's some good reading!

I'm not sure you're interpreting that correctly. Multiple situations at play here. And as Jeff clearly showed, he DID submit business so I don't really know how you came to that conclusion. It may not have been written by Jeff personally, but was written by his downline.

One thing is for certain, Pinney may win the battle, but I'm guessing they'll lose the war. Let's assume for a second that Pinney only makes 10% off of Jeff's business. That's $400k he's made them in six years. There aren't a ton of agents who bring that kind of value to a BGA. My guess is they're pissed they are losing a big hitter and they are acting out of spite.

I know I will never contract with Pinney due to this. Probably not a big loss for them since my focus is now on Medicare. But I've been giving some thought to using Jeff's system since I don't really work that hard 9 months out of the year. I figure I could use those months to make better use of my time. I can only play so much golf. When I started in the business many moons ago I strictly wrote life insurance. Still do, but not near as much as I once did.
 
I dealt with Pinney on a very large policy. My experience was good. 99.9% of agents don't have to worry about getting screwed on overrides paid by the Bga.When someone else pays you there's always risk.
 
I dealt with Pinney on a very large policy. My experience was good. 99.9% of agents don't have to worry about getting screwed on overrides paid by the Bga.When someone else pays you there's always risk.

What's your point? Are you saying because most agents don't have to deal with overrides that it's ok Pinney is doing this? Bad behavior shouldn't be excused just because it doesn't happen to you.
 
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