Has anyone Had this Happen?

To the OP, try him elsewhere and just see what happens. IF it comes back smoker, it comes back smoker.

One question? is this the first policy this guy has purchased or attempted to?
 
My experience is that your client is not telling the truth. But if you are hoping for something else, some foods and some health conditions can give a false positive. Dont laugh for some people too much brocoli causes a false positive. There are more false positives with vegeterians. Yes go back to doctor but you have to do extensive testing to identify cause or let him get a smoker policy.

No way!!!! Insurance applicants never tell lies. Especially insurance applicants who live in another state (but want to buy from me instead of someone local).
 
Do they live with or work around a smoker?

Nicotine tests are performed one of 4 ways: saliva, urine, blood or less common, hair sample. It would be EXTREMELY difficult for second hand smoke, if not IMPOSSIBLE, to show up in his blood, saliva or urine... hair, potentially, but I doubt very seriously they got a hair sample for a paramed exam.

As a FYI: in urine, nicotine will last in the system anywhere from 2-3 weeks; in the blood, only 1-3 days; in saliva... by far the shortest window of detection. There is only so much cotinine (what they are actually testing for) left in the system AFTER personally consuming it.

My guess, this client is lying to you and smokes something such as cigars, pipes, etc. Best to write with another carrier, tell them to NOT smoke ANYTHING and get that piece of business placed.

You can get the MIB corrected, it just may take some time.
 
Nicotine tests are performed one of 4 ways: saliva, urine, blood or less common, hair sample. It would be EXTREMELY difficult for second hand smoke, if not IMPOSSIBLE, to show up in his blood, saliva or urine... hair, potentially, but I doubt very seriously they got a hair sample for a paramed exam.

As a FYI: in urine, nicotine will last in the system anywhere from 2-3 weeks; in the blood, only 1-3 days; in saliva... by far the shortest window of detection. There is only so much cotinine (what they are actually testing for) left in the system AFTER personally consuming it.

My guess, this client is lying to you and smokes something such as cigars, pipes, etc. Best to write with another carrier, tell them to NOT smoke ANYTHING and get that piece of business placed.

You can get the MIB corrected, it just may take some time.[/QUOTE



Of course if you go this route, make sure your E&O is paid up. No wait, you'd be willfully lying on the app, so your E&O wouldn't cover you. To the guy who I am quoting you might want to know that some states void the 2 year contestability clause for lying about smoking. The state (mine) requires the policy to be voided with no death benefit paid. So no, don't lie for the guy and just write the business because in some cases the liability follows you as long as the policy is in force.

You'll find in this business you will make and you will lose money. Chasing a bad risk for temporary gain is pretty foolish.
 
Nicotine tests are performed one of 4 ways: saliva, urine, blood or less common, hair sample. It would be EXTREMELY difficult for second hand smoke, if not IMPOSSIBLE, to show up in his blood, saliva or urine... hair, potentially, but I doubt very seriously they got a hair sample for a paramed exam.

As a FYI: in urine, nicotine will last in the system anywhere from 2-3 weeks; in the blood, only 1-3 days; in saliva... by far the shortest window of detection. There is only so much cotinine (what they are actually testing for) left in the system AFTER personally consuming it.

My guess, this client is lying to you and smokes something such as cigars, pipes, etc. Best to write with another carrier, tell them to NOT smoke ANYTHING and get that piece of business placed.

You can get the MIB corrected, it just may take some time.[/QUOTE



Of course if you go this route, make sure your E&O is paid up. No wait, you'd be willfully lying on the app, so your E&O wouldn't cover you. To the guy who I am quoting you might want to know that some states void the 2 year contestability clause for lying about smoking. The state (mine) requires the policy to be voided with no death benefit paid. So no, don't lie for the guy and just write the business because in some cases the liability follows you as long as the policy is in force.

You'll find in this business you will make and you will lose money. Chasing a bad risk for temporary gain is pretty foolish.


My post was stated one of two things... either the client is lying (which is the most likely scenario) or the text made a mistake (which I highly doubt). If it was a TRUE mistake on his test, then yes, it can be fixed and he can be written non-smoker. However, if the reality is that he lied on the application, no way in hell I'd put him as anything but a smoker. So, I'd sell it like this:

"Look here John, the test came back as a tobacco user, unfortunately, that means you have been underwritten as such. My recommendation would be to move forward with a policy as some coverage is better than no coverage, and in a year from now, I can come back and get you more coverage as a non-smoker. Before you take your next test, we will make sure we plan it better which will get us a better result and the MIB will be updated accordingly! Sound good? Great, so I have $200k for; $250k for and 300k for; which ones of these will work better for you?"
 
"My guess, this client is lying to you and smokes something such as cigars, pipes, etc. Best to write with another carrier, tell them to NOT smoke ANYTHING and get that piece of business placed."


Ok Then I must have misunderstood your sentence here.
 
They new carrier is also likely to see an MIB hit for smoking, and recent labs indicating a positive test for cotinine. It happened to me recently. A woman came to me and stated eithee never smoked or it had been years. Also never mentioned a previous application (this was a non med term). Ultimately came back rated a smoker on my app to do to 3 month old labs. Policy was placed this time. I guess she figured she was not going to get away with it.
 
I just spoke with the applicant and he sticks with his story. Won't accept a tobacco rate. Said he was going to apply elsewhere, but I told him any carrier would check the MIB. Made threats of legal action and I told him that was a waste of time since I nor the company has done anything wrong. Win some lose some.


And my bet is he gets covered elsewhere non tobacco.
 
I have already shopped the case and the MIB was a red flag. We are tracking his labs to make sure they match and he is contacting the MIB to see what they have on him. JD I am not sure how much term insurance you write. All carriers will check the MIB on a large face amount of coverage and will want to know why he did not accept the previous offer. These issues take time to get worked out. It is not like a FE applicant who gets declined by one company and can go somewhere else and get issued.

I wrote a man $10,000 FE last week and the company is now questioning why he applied for other coverage within the last 3 months and what is the status of those applications. He didn't tell me he had applied before so some things you can't hide even on a small face amount.
 
I have already shopped the case and the MIB was a red flag. We are tracking his labs to make sure they match and he is contacting the MIB to see what they have on him. JD I am not sure how much term insurance you write. All carriers will check the MIB on a large face amount of coverage and will want to know why he did not accept the previous offer. These issues take time to get worked out. It is not like a FE applicant who gets declined by one company and can go somewhere else and get issued.

I wrote a man $10,000 FE last week and the company is now questioning why he applied for other coverage within the last 3 months and what is the status of those applications. He didn't tell me he had applied before so some things you can't hide even on a small face amount.

I've written almost $1 mil ap in term. I was a top 15 agent with NAA when doing MP. As for the questions on previous apps, I've had those too. I chose to not continue to do business with companies that pull that crap.

I fully understand how the MIB stuff works. I'm not sure that you do.

As I said, my bet is that he gets covered as a non smoker. What are you willing to wager on it?:biggrin:
 
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