I Just Started at Primerica. Looking for Advice.

Do you even math?

$665 annually or 758.16 on the monthly option. That's about 13%. I have no idea how you are getting these numbers. :swoon:

Edit: I still disagree with subtracting the first premium payment. It's not financing, it's just extra admin fees being tacked on. Those fees start from the first month the premium mode is selected.

Thank you, thank you, and thank you again "AboutThatLife" for posting your remark. I couldn't have asked for a better example to illustrate deficiency in basic insurance and financial understanding and knowledge among some (hopefully a very small percentage) of people who sell life insurance. I've printed it off for my notes, and I would assume that you would not object to my quoting your post in a chapter about life insurance of a book that I am presently working on. Of course, and as should be, there will be proper reference credit to you, the author of that post.

Speaking of books on the subject of life insurance, I highly recommend the excellent book and life insurance reference resource, "The Insurance Forum: A memoir", ISBN 0-941173-18-6 by Joseph M. Belth, professor emeritus of insurance in the Kelley School of Business at Indiana University.

Chapter 8 of Professor Belth's book addresses the issue of disclosure of the financing charge rates for fractional ("modal") premium payments. To Quote from page 100, Professor Belth writes:

Primerica Life Insurance Company, the successor to ALW, was the defendant in one of the New Mexico cases. It still charged an APR of 29.7 percent on monthly premium, and preauthorized checks. I estimated that Primerica's profit from fractional premium charges was $110 million per year, or more than 20 percent of the company's net operating gain.

In July 2000 the attorneys in the Primerica lawsuit met in settlement negotiations. One of the plaintiffs' attorneys later submitted and affidavit describing what happened. The affidavit included the sentence:

Primerica drew a line in the sand, and after extensive discussions told us that the matter had been discussed at the highest level and there was simply no way an interest disclosure would be made​



As to the calcs, if you are unfamiliar with financial matters and/or the basic math involved, there are plenty of amortization rate and payment calculators online. In reference to your remark I still disagree with subtracting the first premium payment, please remind yourself that premiums for insurance are payable in advance, not in arrears (meaning at the beginning of each period, not at the end of each period). Therefore, if the annual premium is $665.00 and the "monthly" fractional is $63.18, $665 is payable at the beginning of the policy year - which is also the beginning of the first month in the policy year - if paid yearly or $63.18 is payable at the beginning of the first month of the policy year if the payments are monthly. Thus the amount "financed" in the example is not $665.00 but $665.00 minus $93.18, as the first month's $63.18 is akin to a "down-payment"

Again, "AboutThatLife", many thanks for your post. Much appreciated. I could not have asked for a better example to illustrate a point and matter of consumer interest.

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Not a fan of Primerica but we are talking about what $8 more per month. It is not all financing the carrier has a cost for touching payments 11 times more per year factor in additional cost for a higher lapse rate and conservation efforts and the consumer is left with an option no one says they have to "finance" this through the carrier the could take a loan and pay it back annually and I bet most consumers would stick to the current modal payments for convenience.

Attribute the charge as a "convenience fee", "processing fee", "lapse assumption" or whatever; however, and regardless how "low" it may appear as a dollar cost per month, the $$$ still travel from the consumer's wallet to the company's coffers. All I am trying to get at is that the effective rate (or at the very least, the APR) should be disclosed to consumers. Life insurance is a financial instrument. Would the same company who charges an APR of 29.747 (effective annual rate of 34.157) provide the consumer with the option to buy a CD or MF with a guaranteed return equal to those figures? Rhetorical question indeed but a matter to be kept in mind.
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BTW, As to the cost involved with "touching payments 11 times more per year" these are minimal, particularly when done electronically and automatically. I highly doubt that 11 or 12 automated electronic debits cost the company more than the wholesale price of the paper cup of a Starbucks latte - if even that.

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All most people are concerned about is the face and payment. They don't go into modal factors.

"Out of sight, out of mind"; however, if the APR - or better yet, the effective annualized rate - were to be disclosed, consumers would have the info needed to make a better informed decision.

Of course, the rates charged vary from as high as 30%+ to 0%. That also, of course, means that the price positioning of a product annually is not necessarily the same or similar to the price positioning fractionally ("monthly", "quarterly", "semi-annually")
 
Thank you, thank you, and thank you again "AboutThatLife" for posting your remark. I couldn't have asked for a better example to illustrate deficiency in basic insurance and financial understanding and knowledge among some (hopefully a very small percentage) of people who sell life insurance. I've printed it off for my notes, and I would assume that you would not object to my quoting your post in a chapter about life insurance of a book that I am presently working on. Of course, and as should be, there will be proper reference credit to you, the author of that post.

Lol...the humor on this site! I just joined and already I am being thrown into the fray. I will not consent a comment attributed to me being included in any book your writing.

I am familiar with the case you mention, according to Primerica the case was about non-disclosure of premium modes by the agent to the consumer. The case was settled, and their compliance requires premium modes to be stated now.

The problem with what you are saying, is that in the section on premium modes, Primerica never mentions any sort of APR going into the calculation. Since no such thing is ever mentioned, it therefore does not exist, and it what NorwayGuy stated is correct.

If they were doing that what you say, that would have been a term of the settlement.
 
I will not consent a comment attributed to me being included in any book your writing.

C'mon c'mon, "AboutThatLife", now you say "attributed" to you... Wasn't it you who posted this text:

" Do you even math?

$665 annually or 758.16 on the monthly option. That's about 13%. I have no idea how you are getting these numbers.

Edit: I still disagree with subtracting the first premium payment. It's not financing, it's just extra admin fees being tacked on. Those fees start from the first month the premium mode is selected.
"?

If it was you and if you believe in the veracity of the above text then what's your problem. I needed some text to counter my position and your posting is perfect for that purpose. Let the readers form their own opinions
 
C'mon c'mon, "AboutThatLife", now you say "attributed" to you... Wasn't it you who posted this text:

" Do you even math?

$665 annually or 758.16 on the monthly option. That's about 13%. I have no idea how you are getting these numbers.

Edit: I still disagree with subtracting the first premium payment. It's not financing, it's just extra admin fees being tacked on. Those fees start from the first month the premium mode is selected.
"?

If it was you and if you believe in the veracity of the above text then what's your problem. I needed some text to counter my position and your posting is perfect for that purpose. Let the readers form their own opinions

YOU need some text, I don't need anything. What royalties am I receiving in exchange for my advice appearing in your book?
 
YOU need some text, I don't need anything. What royalties am I receiving in exchange for my advice appearing in your book?

I have the text. Given that you have put it in the public domain (this forum, a forum that is open for reading by anyone and everyone anywhere in the world, royalty-free), I'll used if I wish to, and if I do I will credit you. Your text would in part illustrate how uninformed agents, who hopefully are in the minority, can mislead consumers, and will accentuate the need for disclosure of the fractional premium payment cost rate by the insurers themselves.

Your "advice", "AboutThatLife", is worth less than nothing as it is misleading. You "AboutThatLife" will have served the purpose to further illustrate the need for caution by consumers. For that, "AboutThatLife", I thank you. As a consumer, I sure hope that you are not giving such "advice" to consumers and that you will be wise enough to realize that you shouldn't.:1frown:
 
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Yes. I've googled and read a lot about the good and bad things at Primerica. Below I will write down a list of pros and cons that I have come up with myself about Primerica.

Ultimately, I want to learn more about insurance and the financial industry while making a good amount of money and help people by doing so. I am pursuing a degree that will ultimately lead me to either become a financial advisor/analyst, actuary, and if I could maybe investment banking. Somehow my life and Primerica's crossed and I thought it would be a good opportunity to learn and possibly look good on a resume if successful. I know that it's going to be a lot of recruiting and prospecting at the same time, and I have had a lot of experience in networking so I don't see this as a problem (yet) and think I can be successful at both.

Now that that's out of the way, I will list things that I like and dislike about Primerica so far and in doing so I hope that you guys can help me add more things to each side to see if Primerica is a good fit for me or lead me to decide to do something else instead.

PROS
  • The people that own the firm seem very knowledgeable about the field and I think I can learn a lot from them as well as some other successful team members. They don't seem reluctant to answer the questions I have had so far and I don't know whether or not I could get the same type of mentoring at other "firms?"
  • I am free to reach whatever goals I want to. I don't have to have X amount of clients by N days unless I want to make more money or move up. (No one will yell at me for not getting clients) Although the only way I'll make money is to sell/recruit, I'd list not being yelled/pressured to work is relieving and will make me produce better numbers than being told that I have to
  • I like that, so far, most of the people that are "agents?" not sure of the term, but they feel like they're helping families. I do like the idea of helping families and I'm glad to be around peers that feel the same way.
  • Mostly Everyone seems happy. Everyone that I see who sticks around the office is really enjoying their life. Some claim to have quit their jobs, and when I ask them if they're glad they did, they aren't hesitant nor give a weak reply like, "Yeah, I guess so", but have that look on their face as if Primerica changed their lives and they weren't quitting any time soon. I mean how much are they making for them to be that happy? IDK, but I enjoyed their cheerful vibes.
  • Adding on to my previous point, they have these meetings where everyone is cheering each other on about their numbers and stuff. They have to have been making a lot of money to be that excited to whistle and howl for a couple of hours at their own and others success. I still don't understand the culture.
  • The job was easy to get. I am not sure how difficult it is to get a sales position at another company
  • I can work whenever I want to. Not sure about other companies.
  • They will pay for, I think, all of my licensing exams such as life, securities 6 and 69, etc. and if I leave, I get to keep them. (So I was told..)
  • The branch that I am a part of is one of the more successful Primerica branches, or so they say.
  • I can recruit well and if I put my energy into recruiting, I can rely on my recruits to do the prospecting which results in me getting money from either closing for them, or them closing themselves. I'm just hoping this works out.

CONS
  • Their product is a bit more expensive than competitors. Having not sold anything yet, I already feel bad thinking that as their "financial advisor of sorts" I'm basically ripping them off by not finding them the best deal. The purpose of buying term is to invest the difference, but the best way to do that is buy getting the cheapest deal. I've read that most people that do buy the cheapest rates for term life end up cancelling. So if I worked at a place that sold cheaper term, I wouldn't be making money if they are cancelling their policies.
  • After reading around, I think the commission might be a little low starting. Which I think is around 25% and then promoted to 50% after first 4 clients. Whereas I've read people saying they get around 80-100%+.
  • Maybe I'm being lied to by everyone, maybe they aren't successful but just want to project that they are and everyone is doing the same thing because they have nothing else going for them. I am not sure. After seeing their numbers for the week and calculating their potential income that week, they make an okay amount, maybe around $1000 a week, but I have nothing to compare that to.

I've really been on the fence about this job. I know I can do it well, but I don't know if I could have more success elsewhere.

How much commission do other companies give starting?
Are those other jobs difficult to obtain?
Is there a better chance for me to learn just as much elsewhere?
Am I being brainwashed to thinking this place will make me the most money for my work?
Is the product bad besides the high rates? Should families be worried about any sort of mishaps or fine print at Primerica vs another company or vice versa?
A lot of people claim that Primerica reps often say that Primerica products are the best and believe that others are evil. Are there a lot of shady/unethical/evil companies out there? Is Primerica good/evil??

I really don't know much. I just want to learn, sell, help, and make the most money doing so.

Am I heading in the right direction?


Primerica was started by a man named A.L. Williams. He was imprisoned for fraud. End of story.
 
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