MOO GUL Replacement Question

[yogooglethis]

I need advise from Life gurus.Today met with 54 NS smoker male who can qualify for most simplified issue FE but I would be a little worried about him qualifying for fully underwritten.He thought he had 100k WL from MOO but it turns out it is a United of Omaha GUL with a 100k specified face amount and 190.31 planned monthly premium.Agent that wrote this in 7/2013 replaced 25k Graded WL effective 2009 and 100k MOO convertible ART.I question why the agent would have suggested for him to drop these WL policies so he could sell him 100k of GUL that he told the client was WL. The United of Omaha GUL was was rated up 1.5 and the no lapse guarantee is 20 years.The client wanted a MOO agent because his agent died and I believe MOO gave this independent agent who lives about 150 miles from here the lead because there is no captive MOO agents within 300 of here here so maybe that's why he sold him United of Omaha GUL and also maybe because the ART was convertible ?

Any simplified issue WL or much cheaper GUL up to 100k that would be anywhere near 190.00 a month for 54 year turning 55 in 1 week or suggestions of combinations of plans.

 

[rayluk]

Is his GUL only guaranteed to 20 years? I am not sure I am reading it right.
Or is his GUL going to last till 121 with planned premium? If only 20 years, then it was pretty much sold as a 20 years term.
If it is guaranteed till 121, then I do not see the point of replacing it.

 

[peteybear]

Its 20 yr guaranteed based on the worst case scenario so in all likelihood it will go ,much longer than 20 yrs based on current assumptions. Yes there are better ones like sagicor but your health must be better to get those rates than a MOO.

 

[AlTheGud1sRtakn]

Is his GUL only guaranteed to 20 years? I am not sure I am reading it right.
Or is his GUL going to last till 121 with planned premium? If only 20 years, then it was pretty much sold as a 20 years term.
If it is guaranteed till 121, then I do not see the point of replacing it.

Agreed, something doesn't sound right. MOO GUL policies are sold through United of Omaha, that's just the name of that part of MOO. Nothing fishy going on there.

By default their GUL policies are guaranteed to 120. Lots, if not most, clients who say they want "whole life" mean they want something permanent and don't know there are multiple ways to achieve that, a GUL being one of them.

Sounds like he converted an ART to a GUL, which is likely what a lot of people would have done since there's no underwriting. If he did it to only last 20 years then he screwed the client, but I'm thinking (hoping) I'm confused on that part.

 

[WinoBlues]

Agreed, something doesn't sound right. MOO GUL policies are sold through United of Omaha, that's just the name of that part of MOO. Nothing fishy going on there.

By default their GUL policies are guaranteed to 120. Lots, if not most, clients who say they want "whole life" mean they want something permanent and don't know there are multiple ways to achieve that, a GUL being one of them.

Sounds like he converted an ART to a GUL, which is likely what a lot of people would have done since there's no underwriting. If he did it to only last 20 years then he screwed the client, but I'm thinking (hoping) I'm confused on that part.

I was thinking a conversion also. Term must have been rated.

----------

I need advise from Life gurus.Today met with 54 NS smoker male who can qualify for most simplified issue FE but I would be a little worried about him qualifying for fully underwritten.He thought he had 100k WL from MOO but it turns out it is a United of Omaha GUL with a 100k specified face amount and 190.31 planned monthly premium.Agent that wrote this in 7/2013 replaced 25k Graded WL effective 2009 and 100k MOO convertible ART.I question why the agent would have suggested for him to drop these WL policies so he could sell him 100k of GUL that he told the client was WL. The United of Omaha GUL was was rated up 1.5 and the no lapse guarantee is 20 years.The client wanted a MOO agent because his agent died and I believe MOO gave this independent agent who lives about 150 miles from here the lead because there is no captive MOO agents within 300 of here here so maybe that's why he sold him United of Omaha GUL and also maybe because the ART was convertible ?

Any simplified issue WL or much cheaper GUL up to 100k that would be anywhere near 190.00 a month for 54 year turning 55 in 1 week or suggestions of combinations of plans.

Not sure you are going to beat a 20yr term with a GUL 121. Depending on the reason for the rating look at Sagicor std and Sagicor rated (T2).

 

[VolAgent]

Probably the only thing the agent did wrong was only have the GUL guaranteed out for 20 years.

Now, he probably had some help in that. I bet the prospect wanted a WL but at term prices. The agent probably converted to the GUL so there would be no underwriting and health wouldn't matter. He should have made it run for life, but the prospect may have balked at the premium and went with the guarantee for 20 years, but projected for life.

Quite frankly, the best thing for this guy is to call MOO and see if the premium can be increased and have the policy guaranteed for life. I bet he balks at the new premium. It is extremely unlikely you are going to beat his current premium with a new policy, particularly if you show a whole life. You might get close with a GUL, but if he is rated then odds are it is going to be higher.

 

[AlTheGud1sRtakn]

Probably the only thing the agent did wrong was only have the GUL guaranteed out for 20 years.

Now, he probably had some help in that. I bet the prospect wanted a WL but at term prices. The agent probably converted to the GUL so there would be no underwriting and health wouldn't matter. He should have made it run for life, but the prospect may have balked at the premium and went with the guarantee for 20 years, but projected for life.

Quite frankly, the best thing for this guy is to call MOO and see if the premium can be increased and have the policy guaranteed for life. I bet he balks at the new premium. It is extremely unlikely you are going to beat his current premium with a new policy, particularly if you show a whole life. You might get close with a GUL, but if he is rated then odds are it is going to be higher.

I think your best bet on a replacement is if the reason for the rating on his current policy has fallen off and he can get standard now. In my experience the opposite usually happens though and health problems increase as people get older.

 

[VolAgent]

I think your best bet on a replacement is if the reason for the rating on his current policy has fallen off and he can get standard now. In my experience the opposite usually happens though and health problems increase as people get older.

That is a big if. Unless it was a temporary flat extra, it is unlikely to be something that can improve.

----------

I'll add, standard tobacco rates are going to be around 240 a month for 100k for him.

You aren't going to get him a better premium without dropping coverage or term. That or he suddenly becomes a non-smoker and that is dangerous.

 

[scagnt83]

Quite frankly, the best thing for this guy is to call MOO and see if the premium can be increased and have the policy guaranteed for life. I bet he balks at the new premium. It is extremely unlikely you are going to beat his current premium with a new policy, particularly if you show a whole life. You might get close with a GUL, but if he is rated then odds are it is going to be higher.

This.
______________________

 

[TwiLight]

I think the OP is referring to the 20 year guarantee that is inherent in all GUL policies, including the UofO policy.... That is that during the first 20 years, as long as the planned premium is paid in total during that 20 year period that it will be in force.

After the 20 year period......Including my beloved Sagicor is when the Guarantee can be removed by not paying premiums Timely.... 1 day late and you are toast........ The reason for this is that cash value is usually 0.00 and the flexibility of late payments or flexible payments are gone and the policy could lapse without timely payments.

As for the GUL Express plan that UofO has, it already has a table 2-4 built into the underwriting and rates and would be tough to match with Standard GUL carriers such as Sagicor or NA without a table rating, especially after what the OP mentioned about previous ratings and health issues.