The Most Cash Value in Year 1

[sales_Wolf]

Ohio National Prestige Max.

 

[Larry Tew]

Ohio National Prestige Max.

Nooooooo... I'm a huge fan of the Prestige Max but IF you're goal is to have as much 1st year CV as possible, that is not the product. Prestige Max even at super preferred for a 35 year old male has 1st year cash of around 34% of 1st year premium.

The Prestige 100 Plus blended product may get up to around 75% but apparently there are products that will hit 100%, although I'd hate to see how bad that product looks at later years.

As much as I love whole life and its living benefits, I'm just not interested in trying to make it work like this in a first year scenario.

 

[VolAgent]

Nooooooo... I'm a huge fan of the Prestige Max but IF you're goal is to have as much 1st year CV as possible, that is not the product. Prestige Max even at super preferred for a 35 year old male has 1st year cash of around 34% of 1st year premium.

The Prestige 100 Plus blended product may get up to around 75% but apparently there are products that will hit 100%, although I'd hate to see how bad that product looks at later years.

As much as I love whole life and its living benefits, I'm just not interested in trying to make it work like this in a first year scenario.

This would be a good one for Mass's HECV. And yes, I do seem to recall it gave up some performance in later years. It was up in the high 80s or even 90s for cash value.

Comp wise, it was actually pretty sweet. 6 years of FYC 12.5%, then 6 years of renewals at 12.5% before they dropped down. Those 6 years of FYC also counted towards all bonuses and contests. So it really was a good product for the career agents.

In theory, you could qualify for convention and trip for the next 5 years if you wrote enough in one year. The target market was also for situations just like this. Businesses that have large, irregular capital expenditures.

 

[fjman]

This would be a good one for Mass's HECV. And yes, I do seem to recall it gave up some performance in later years. It was up in the high 80s or even 90s for cash value.

Comp wise, it was actually pretty sweet. 6 years of FYC 12.5%, then 6 years of renewals at 12.5% before they dropped down. Those 6 years of FYC also counted towards all bonuses and contests. So it really was a good product for the career agents.

In theory, you could qualify for convention and trip for the next 5 years if you wrote enough in one year. The target market was also for situations just like this. Businesses that have large, irregular capital expenditures.

I was looking at the comp schedule and thought the same thing. Not a bad deal at all for everyone involved. I have my mass mutual guy putting an illustration together for me. Curious to see how it does I later years

 

[YourFamilyBank]

I understand the WL/IUL debate pretty well and generally lean toward WL myself but I wonder how the short term borrowing comes into play here. This would be geared toward guys that would pay the loans and interest back within 3-12 months.

Has anyone done much with MM High early cash value WL? Although not 100% in year one, it seems pretty strong early on.

What's comp like with Midland/NA with the rider on there? I did some research and the commission chargeback period is scary! Haha!

MM HECV is really nice early and not so bad later, a good mix, but if I'm not mistaken their loan rate is pretty high?

 

[fjman]

MM HECV is really nice early and not so bad later, a good mix, but if I'm not mistaken their loan rate is pretty high?

I was able to glance at it earlier but haven't really had time to analyze it. I think I saw that loans are at 6% but Don't quote me on that. Dividend performance is a bit of a laggard early on which kind of surprised me but it's guaranteed to have about 90% cash value in year one.

I'm going to get a Midland illustration and an ONL prestige max (which I also like but doesn't kick in for 2 years but currently at 4.4% on loans) and compare values 5 years out.

I also want to see if the MM product can be illustrated at a 7 pay level (I guess buy doing a reduced paid up?)

 

[YourFamilyBank]

I was able to glance at it earlier but haven't really had time to analyze it. I think I saw that loans are at 6% but Don't quote me on that. Dividend performance is a bit of a laggard early on which kind of surprised me but it's guaranteed to have about 90% cash value in year one.

I'm going to get a Midland illustration and an ONL prestige max (which I also like but doesn't kick in for 2 years but currently at 4.4% on loans) and compare values 5 years out.

I also want to see if the MM product can be illustrated at a 7 pay level (I guess buy doing a reduced paid up?)

Or by offsetting it. They can show either.

Max is tough unless looking at 8-10 year numbers. From there though it's good stuff.

 

[pfg1]

For WL.... Like Larry said....Prestige max definitely won't give you high cash values early, it gets strong later.
Using a wl/term blend will likely get you the most c/v early, but you will sacrifice a bit later.

For IUL, I'll defer to SC...

 

[YourFamilyBank]

Why would you use mtl? I know they are just projections but the last time I looked at them their illustrated dividends were pretty bad 10 years out.

Well it depends on design. And I agree it is low right now, but the flexibility in design and future options fit better for us than just going for a higher dividend.

That being said, we typically short pay or offset the premium or reduce pay it up once reach a certain CV level based on the solution we are looking for, business funding, personal, etc.. We use an IUL solution for the longer term funding for income.

 

[scagnt83]

Agree, trails aren't bad option, just depends on agent needs. Penn's trail program is nice too.

I respect the heck out of your opinion, read a lot of stuff on here from you and like your style, but I've not seen a scenario with borrowing with a UL is better than a properly structure whole life plan. Not just once or so, but planning on using it to pay off debt, purchases etc... Maybe there is, I just haven't seen it. When borrowing, as far as I've known the guarantee of rate (int and loan) and how they are treated are most important.

But respect your argument as always.

Consistency is certainly nice when planning on multiple loans. I do understand your position.

But when you use the ECV products and combine it with waiver of surrender it still keeps a very large amount of consistency even with 0% years.

Plus GPT testing is better for loans vs. CVAT.

I also prefer UL because they offer OverLoan Riders. They are not for the beginning years, but a policy with multiple loans is likely to have active loans 15 years out. Penn WL does offer OverLoan protection.

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Has anyone done much with MM High early cash value WL? Although not 100% in year one, it seems pretty strong early on.

What's comp like with Midland/NA with the rider on there? I did some research and the commission chargeback period is scary! Haha!

The Midland ECV w/ WSC Rider offers 3 comp options:
A- 95%/1% . 4% Renewals . 0% Trails
B- 10%/2% . 2% Renewals . 1% Trails
C- 7.25%/7.25% . 3% Renewals . 0% Trails

If they are putting in serious money then Opt B is nice with the 1% trails.
What reduces the comp is the fact that they reduce the Target with the WSC Rider.



The MM HECV product is really nice. Good option if you want WL.


You really should look at Penn Mutual's WL. They allow the highest ratio of PUA to Base Premium on the market (or at least they used to). They also have/had an option to have the policy contractually paid up at any year you choose.