The Most Cash Value in Year 1

[fjman]

Who would you guys use for the highest cash value in year 1?

Looking for something a real estate investor / flipper could use for short term loans beginning in early years. I'm thinking non direct par WL but open to suggestions.

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50k-60k annual premium if that makes a difference

 

[scagnt83]

Who would you guys use for the highest cash value in year 1?

Looking for something a real estate investor / flipper could use for short term loans beginning in early years. I'm thinking non direct par WL but open to suggestions.

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50k-60k annual premium if that makes a difference

Midland/NA Rapid Builder IUL with the waiver of Surrender Charge Rider. Nothing will beat it.

And ULs in general can almost always create a higher y1 CV.

 

[fjman]

What's it look like with the rider on there as far as % of 1st year premium?

 

[scagnt83]

what's it look like with the rider on there as far as % of 1st year premium?

100%
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[YourFamilyBank]

We use mtl for the whole life build. Probably around 80-82% first year.

If going to be doing planned borrowing I prefer whole life build vs IUL.

Although scag is right with the riders now on some you can get 100% but you take a haircut on comp (usually) and again, I just don't do IUL for "planned" borrowing strategies.

 

[scagnt83]

We use mtl for the whole life build. Probably around 80-82% first year.

If going to be doing planned borrowing I prefer whole life build vs IUL.

Although scag is right with the riders now on some you can get 100% but you take a haircut on comp (usually) and again, I just don't do IUL for "planned" borrowing strategies.

You take a haircut on the first year but it pays more over a 5 year period. Plus Midland gives the option to be paid asset based trails as well.

I would argue that with "planned borrowing" a UL policy is much more advantageous to use vs. WL.

And if there is any gain at all in the first year it is 100%+ with the waiver of surrender rider.

 

[DWPCL]

We use mtl for the whole life build. Probably around 80-82% first year.

If going to be doing planned borrowing I prefer whole life build vs IUL.

Although scag is right with the riders now on some you can get 100% but you take a haircut on comp (usually) and again, I just don't do IUL for "planned" borrowing strategies.

Why would you use mtl? I know they are just projections but the last time I looked at them their illustrated dividends were pretty bad 10 years out.

 

[YourFamilyBank]

You take a haircut on the first year but it pays more over a 5 year period. Plus Midland gives the option to be paid asset based trails as well.

I would argue that with "planned borrowing" a UL policy is much more advantageous to use vs. WL.

And if there is any gain at all in the first year it is 100%+ with the waiver of surrender rider.

Agree, trails aren't bad option, just depends on agent needs. Penn's trail program is nice too.

I respect the heck out of your opinion, read a lot of stuff on here from you and like your style, but I've not seen a scenario with borrowing with a UL is better than a properly structure whole life plan. Not just once or so, but planning on using it to pay off debt, purchases etc... Maybe there is, I just haven't seen it. When borrowing, as far as I've known the guarantee of rate (int and loan) and how they are treated are most important.

But respect your argument as always.

 

[fjman]

I understand the WL/IUL debate pretty well and generally lean toward WL myself but I wonder how the short term borrowing comes into play here. This would be geared toward guys that would pay the loans and interest back within 3-12 months.

Has anyone done much with MM High early cash value WL? Although not 100% in year one, it seems pretty strong early on.

What's comp like with Midland/NA with the rider on there? I did some research and the commission chargeback period is scary! Haha!

 

[WMG]

I understand the WL/IUL debate pretty well and generally lean toward WL myself but I wonder how the short term borrowing comes into play here. This would be geared toward guys that would pay the loans and interest back within 3-12 months.

Has anyone done much with MM High early cash value WL? Although not 100% in year one, it seems pretty strong early on.

What's comp like with Midland/NA with the rider on there? I did some research and the commission chargeback period is scary! Haha!

If you are referring to Mass Mutual, yes, I've used the product.

Depending on the specifics, I've used both whole life and UL. With the latter, it has to be managed diligently. While UL provides more flexibility with regard to premium payments, that flexibility can end up having consequences. That aside, with whole life the client can use bank lending or one of the cash value line of credit programs. Depending on the product, that can be more favorable than policy borrowing -- lower rate, possible income tax deduction, although that's debatable until the end of time, LOL, and allowing the policy to fully perform, gestate, etc.

In this case, like most, it truly depends on the client specifics and situation.