Penn Mutual Whole Life Contract

Penn is one of the best WL products on the market. Imo, they are the best for CV along with MM. They allow a higher ratio of PUAs than Mass does (I think it is 10x or 12x base). They also allow lots of flexibility in when to do PUAs.

Penn also offers an Overloan Protection Rider which is unique for a WL policy.


Mass has a great LTCI Rider but they do not allow PUAs along with it. That is because the LTCI Rider uses Dividends to increase the LTC benefit amount. Use the 10 pay with this product and you still get very strong CV performance considering the other benefits. It is also a true LTCI type of benefit and not a Chronic Illness benefit like most ULs have.



how are you getting a 10 to 1 ratio??

I use on a 10000 premium .. I"m getting a 4 to 1 ratio...

I use the FPR rider and the Enhanced PUA to "fill in" .. what am I doing wrong?
 
how are you getting a 10 to 1 ratio??

I use on a 10000 premium .. I"m getting a 4 to 1 ratio...

I use the FPR rider and the Enhanced PUA to "fill in" .. what am I doing wrong?

If you are contracted with them, just call your regional... they should be able to help you quickly I would think...
 
how are you getting a 10 to 1 ratio??

I use on a 10000 premium .. I"m getting a 4 to 1 ratio...

I use the FPR rider and the Enhanced PUA to "fill in" .. what am I doing wrong?

Im just going from memory on that figure. I could be incorrect, but I do remember that last time I compared the two, Penn allowed a higher ratio of PUAs. That could have changed and I could definitely be wrong about the exact ratio.
 
∆ Continuous care in an eligible facility or at home is expected
to be required for the remainder of the insured’s life when the
insured has a chronic illness.

This is the big biggest difference between the two.

Penn is a 101g Rider (Chronic Illness)

Mass is a 7702t Rider (Long Term Care Rider)

The Mass Rider is a true LTC style benefit and you must have your LTCI certification to sell it. It also has its own separate UW that is LTCI based UW.


The fact that the insured must be expected to require care for life is a HUGE difference. Only a small percentage of LTC claims are for life. The majority will return to normal functions within 5-10 years. It is the minority of people receiving LTC care that will need that care for the rest of their life.


In other words, a Chronic Rider might cover 20% of LTC claims. The Mass Rider will cover 90%+ of them.


-------------------------------


Then there is the actual LTCI bucket of money that is available. You need to look at the separate LTCI report on the Mass illustration to properly compare the LTC benefit that is payable along with the DB that is payable.

Keep in mind that there are two different options for the LTCI benefit on the Mass policy. They offer an option to have the max monthly benefit increase starting age 60. So by age 80 you have over $5k per month available.

Taking the LTCR benefit on the Mass policy also does not destroy the DB because of the way they calculate the benefit pool and dividends.


If you start your claim at age 75, you get $1.5mm in LTC benefits by age 99, and you still have a payable DB of $1.4mm at age 99. So they net a total of $3mm in benefits out of the policy if you needed LTC care from age 75 to age 99.
(I used a 10pay policy because it is more of an apples to apples comparison)



If LTC is the main concern (along with DB) then there is no competition between the two. Take a hard look a the LTCR report on the Mass policy.
 
Much appreciation for that rundown on the two co's. I'm in the middle of a decision between the two Mutuals right now.




This is the big biggest difference between the two.

Penn is a 101g Rider (Chronic Illness)

Mass is a 7702t Rider (Long Term Care Rider)

The Mass Rider is a true LTC style benefit and you must have your LTCI certification to sell it. It also has its own separate UW that is LTCI based UW.


The fact that the insured must be expected to require care for life is a HUGE difference. Only a small percentage of LTC claims are for life. The majority will return to normal functions within 5-10 years. It is the minority of people receiving LTC care that will need that care for the rest of their life.


In other words, a Chronic Rider might cover 20% of LTC claims. The Mass Rider will cover 90%+ of them.


-------------------------------


Then there is the actual LTCI bucket of money that is available. You need to look at the separate LTCI report on the Mass illustration to properly compare the LTC benefit that is payable along with the DB that is payable.

Keep in mind that there are two different options for the LTCI benefit on the Mass policy. They offer an option to have the max monthly benefit increase starting age 60. So by age 80 you have over $5k per month available.

Taking the LTCR benefit on the Mass policy also does not destroy the DB because of the way they calculate the benefit pool and dividends.


If you start your claim at age 75, you get $1.5mm in LTC benefits by age 99, and you still have a payable DB of $1.4mm at age 99. So they net a total of $3mm in benefits out of the policy if you needed LTC care from age 75 to age 99.
(I used a 10pay policy because it is more of an apples to apples comparison)



If LTC is the main concern (along with DB) then there is no competition between the two. Take a hard look a the LTCR report on the Mass policy.
 
Much appreciation for that rundown on the two co's. I'm in the middle of a decision between the two Mutuals right now.

No problem.

One thing I forgot to add is that its against DOI Regs to market or refer to a 101g Chronic Illness Rider as a "Long Term Care Rider".
You are risking a slap on the wrist of some kind by the DOI if you do.

Only a 7702a Long Term care Rider may actually use the term "Long Term Care" in marketing or referencing the product.
 
Back
Top