Steve Savant Interviews Wayne Cotton

I am an advocate of the Cotton System. And if the system is worth $1100, it's worth $11,000 when considering everything.

And before you buy a used system from eBay, you might want to find out if that entitles you to the benefits of actual system ownership such as the training calls, consumables, intro brochures, etc.

I really like everything I hear and read that Wayne puts out. My biggest concern is whether gaining prestige introductions would work consistently for my business model. If I remember correctly he advocates receiving 20 per week and scheduling 10 Viewpoints. If I could consistently get 20 on profile introductions, I have no doubt that I could make the rest of it work.

If it was priced at $600, I would have bought it already. Around $3,000 (correct?), that tests my faith that it would work for me.
 
I really like everything I hear and read that Wayne puts out. My biggest concern is whether gaining prestige introductions would work consistently for my business model. If I remember correctly he advocates receiving 20 per week and scheduling 10 Viewpoints. If I could consistently get 20 on profile introductions, I have no doubt that I could make the rest of it work.

If it was priced at $600, I would have bought it already. Around $3,000 (correct?), that tests my faith that it would work for me.

I believe the current price is ~$2,000. As far as your business model, unless you're doing the "selling term at my kitchen table in my underwear over the phone" thing, what about your business model would make this not work for you?

And as it has been said earlier, what you're paying for is more of the philosophies which is of far greater value than the brochures or scripts.
 
I believe the current price is ~$2,000. As far as your business model, unless you're doing the "selling term at my kitchen table in my underwear over the phone" thing, what about your business model would make this not work for you?

And as it has been said earlier, what you're paying for is more of the philosophies which is of far greater value than the brochures or scripts.

It may be my own hang up. I just have a hard time believing that my busy, stressed out, Type A business owner clients are going to deliver enough Prestige Introductions to get an adequate flow. I could be completely wrong.

I absolutely agree on the philosophies. This is a sincere question: In doing some basic research including reading his articles, listing to the links above, and attending his 5 hour webinar, what would be the added value of purchasing his program other than not having to create your own materials (which might be worth it by itself)?

I have a $5,000 production bonus coming in February and would consider investing it in his system if I was convinced the ROI would be significant. I have been under whelmed with "system sellers" in our industry and I've become cynical over the years. I work too hard for my income to turn it over frivolously.
 
It may be my own hang up. I just have a hard time believing that my busy, stressed out, Type A business owner clients are going to deliver enough Prestige Introductions to get an adequate flow. I could be completely wrong.

I absolutely agree on the philosophies. This is a sincere question: In doing some basic research including reading his articles, listing to the links above, and attending his 5 hour webinar, what would be the added value of purchasing his program other than not having to create your own materials (which might be worth it by itself)?

I have a $5,000 production bonus coming in February and would consider investing it in his system if I was convinced the ROI would be significant. I have been under whelmed with "system sellers" in our industry and I've become cynical over the years. I work too hard for my income to turn it over frivolously.

I understand where you're coming from. In our industry, every new "Bright Shiny Object" (Wayne's term) only costs the commission on "just one more sale". Stack enough of those together, and it starts to hurt a little bit.

There a lot of systems out there that either:
1. Blazed the trail but didn't stay relevant.
2. Built upon a stale system and took it to a new level.
3. Plagiarized and ripped off a currently relevant system.

In my opinion, Wayne blazed the trail in client acquisition. Once you fully adapt the philosophies to your practice, you may decide to tweak a little here or there, but you first need to get the concepts under your belt.

I bought the system in the early 90s and while he has re-branded and freshened the content, the philosophies are timeless and apply as much today as they did 20 years ago.
 
I understand where you're coming from. In our industry, every new "Bright Shiny Object" (Wayne's term) only costs the commission on "just one more sale". Stack enough of those together, and it starts to hurt a little bit.

There a lot of systems out there that either:
1. Blazed the trail but didn't stay relevant.
2. Built upon a stale system and took it to a new level.
3. Plagiarized and ripped off a currently relevant system.

In my opinion, Wayne blazed the trail in client acquisition. Once you fully adapt the philosophies to your practice, you may decide to tweak a little here or there, but you first need to get the concepts under your belt.

I bought the system in the early 90s and while he has re-branded and freshened the content, the philosophies are timeless and apply as much today as they did 20 years ago.

Thanks for your input, I may pull the trigger on it. Mature simplicity sounds good compared to being at the office since 6 am on Sunday morning before rushing to church shortly. Too much "diffusion" in Cotton terminology.

Anyone else care to share their experiences?
 
I understand where you're coming from. In our industry, every new "Bright Shiny Object" (Wayne's term) only costs the commission on "just one more sale". Stack enough of those together, and it starts to hurt a little bit.

There a lot of systems out there that either:
1. Blazed the trail but didn't stay relevant.
2. Built upon a stale system and took it to a new level.
3. Plagiarized and ripped off a currently relevant system.

In my opinion, Wayne blazed the trail in client acquisition. Once you fully adapt the philosophies to your practice, you may decide to tweak a little here or there, but you first need to get the concepts under your belt.

I bought the system in the early 90s and while he has re-branded and freshened the content, the philosophies are timeless and apply as much today as they did 20 years ago.

So do you still follow the system (close enough to resemble what he's selling now?) If so, how many introductions do you get on average per client? Do you find that theose introductions are giving you as many indroductions to keep the system going, or are you having to add clients in a different way as well? It seems like you could easily close a circle (ie, a school full of teachers).

I'm really curious to see how this has worked for you long term.
 
Thanks for your input, I may pull the trigger on it. Mature simplicity sounds good compared to being at the office since 6 am on Sunday morning before rushing to church shortly. Too much "diffusion" in Cotton terminology.

Anyone else care to share their experiences?

Read this LinkedIn thread:

https://www.linkedin.com/groups/LEAP-Referral-Guide-vs-Cotton-992687.S.213503277

Al Dickens and Al Smith are nationally known LEAP users & trainers... who have recently begun to use CCAS.

Back when I was in an agency with Al, he wasn't using it back then, so he must've begun using it in the past couple of years. He now kicks himself for not doing so sooner.

Al Dickens was a national LEAP trainer... and instituted the CCAS in his personal agency within the last year or so.

Both reference Art Sanger... a career agency GA for Ohio National in Wisconsin... and a multiple-year user of the Cotton System.


I wish I could tell you that I use it... but I don't. However, every time I hear more from Wayne, I think I really should. But, like you, get nervous on that $2k+. Maybe one day soon.
 
Read this LinkedIn thread:

Al Dickens and Al Smith are nationally known LEAP users & trainers... who have recently begun to use CCAS.

Back when I was in an agency with Al, he wasn't using it back then, so he must've begun using it in the past couple of years. He now kicks himself for not doing so sooner.

Al Dickens was a national LEAP trainer... and instituted the CCAS in his personal agency within the last year or so.

Both reference Art Sanger... a career agency GA for Ohio National in Wisconsin... and a multiple-year user of the Cotton System.


I wish I could tell you that I use it... but I don't. However, every time I hear more from Wayne, I think I really should. But, like you, get nervous on that $2k+. Maybe one day soon.

Hi DHK - Thanks for sharing these videos and for all of the info you provide.

I am going to start up a whole new topic and not to highjack this thread, but I was wondering if you've heart of Art and Jason Sanger's Wealth Building Cornerstones (WBC) system? It seems to have the same principles of LEAP (WL sales tool), but a lot simpler, with less fact-finding appointments and such.

Also, every time I go to a new training on WBC, I'm always so motivated again to try to pitch it, yet it always falls on deaf ears with clients.

I've only been in the business for about 3yrs and am currently working on my CLU and ChFC, but I have not for the life of me been able to grasp the WL sale. I know that it will come with time, but it just seems to be dead in the water each time I bring it up with a prospect.

Anyway, just thought that I'd see if you've heard of WBC, as it seems a lot more palatable than LEAP, with not as steep of a learning curve. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts.
 
I was just looking at the Wealth Building Cornerstones website this past week! About $1900 to start and $600/year.

Let's look beneath the surface on this one: Art Sanger, a national LEAP trainer for 18 years... and now a General Agent of his own agency... decided that he wanted/needed something SIMPLER (and somewhat cheaper) than the LEAP system?

What does that tell us? I remember once what "Client Advocate" said about LEAP on a controversial forum: "LEAP is like surgery. Not every client needs surgery. Not every producer is a surgeon."

It's also a big blow to the reputation of LEAP systems when a prominent LEAP trainer invents their own 'system'. It's also an indication that there may be a problem with the original system.

Do you know how many "LEAP 'knock-off' systems" there are?
- MoneyTrax Circle of Wealth (the most popular)
- Wealth Building Cornerstones
- TruthConcepts
- Building Your Financial Home (Ford Mays)
- Missed Fortune (a variation on the theme)

(BTW, if you ever listen to some John Savage recordings... you can easily make the connection that LEAP is a very systematic method of putting John's methods to a mathematical economic model. It's all basically the same - bank, insurance, investments vs protection, savings, & growth.)

In short, it seems like everyone is in the "software system selling" game.

What the underlying problem is... is a severe lack of communication skills training out there. Every system peddler says "we solve that... if you buy our stuff for a few thousand dollars."

Unfortunately, CLU and ChFC courses won't help you to get the WL sale. These academic courses are worthwhile and great for your knowledge, but they don't incorporate solutions to the real problem: communication skills. Without good skills, the "time will only come" when you have a prospective client who already wants permanent life insurance. That's not selling... that's providing the solution that the client wants. And we want more control of making that happen more often, not to just "piggy-back" on the sales efforts of previous agents.

If you want my recommendation, I would check out the Insurance Pro Shop and their training resources. You can take a look at their members only site for only $25/month. There's a bunch of online videos you can view and get an idea of how to improve your communication skills.
IPS Insurance Marketing and Sales Resource Center

The best part: No software required.

The worst parts: their website looks like it's for a "free report"... and a few spelling errors. Other than that, look past all that and take a look at their communication skill training.

In short, the Insurance Pro Shop will help you BECOME a great producer... instead of a "software system dog & pony show".

One caveat: Lew Nason "thinks" he knows what LEAP is all about (the leveraging of one's permanent whole life death benefit to increase one's retirement income). He doesn't teach that at all. Lew is all about the advantages of the cash value build-up within the policy... and using this knowledge to help middle-income families.

It's simpler, less overhead... which means you can afford to help more people who have less assets than you would with the LEAP or WBC or whatever.

Even if you choose to buy his Found Money Management system... the most you'll spend is $100/month for 12 months... no renewal fees.

Here's a preview of what you can expect from the Insurance Pro Shop:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5p30UhdUsOA&list=UUTa-Cz5sbm3SOLkfcXAMBGw&index=37
 
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I did the $25 IPS and I found a few nuggets in there, but you have to wade through a ton of crap imo. Old outdate articles, or repetitive articles. And they basically say in the material, anyone who takes their membership for a short while is only stealing their stuff and is the worst type of agent....that's a pretty crazy thing to say
 
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