Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on Term?

[rivdogg]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

I'm in Ohio myself. I like using Midland National...good rates, term comp is 95 percent and you can get licensed directly.

Also have met with the regional from cinci life a couple times, we are in the process to become a GA with them. You can't just get licensed directly, you have to go through a GA process that involves a couple meetings with different hiearchy.

I would recommend Midland National if you are an independent producer that doesn't want to have to go through a GA
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What companies can you contract directly through that pay 120-130 percent?

I'm fairly new to the indy world and havent seen that......

 

[VolAgent]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

There is something I was just told by Cincinnati Life HO. Hopefully someone has additional information or can correct me on this.

You cannot convert their term while on wavier of premium. In fact, it seems to suggest you cannot convert at all if disabled.

If so, seems like there are better places to send your business.

 

[WinoBlues]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

I will need to check that out. That is a big deal. Does it stay term? If not on waiver, but disabled, can't convert? Does not sound correct.

Thanks for the info.

There is something I was just told by Cincinnati Life HO. Hopefully someone has additional information or can correct me on this.

You cannot convert their term while on wavier of premium. In fact, it seems to suggest you cannot convert at all if disabled.

If so, seems like there are better places to send your business.

 

[VolAgent]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

I will need to check that out. That is a big deal. Does it stay term? If not on waiver, but disabled, can't convert? Does not sound correct.

Thanks for the info.

I'm waiting on the supervisor to call me back. But I asked in year 20 of a twenty year term what happens. "It goes away."

Sounds pretty crappy to me. Pay a few more dollars and get the ability to convert when you need it most.

On their Termsetter 20 illustration, under conversion privilege "3. You are not totally disabled as defined in any rider of this policy providing wavier of premium."

Sounds pretty cut and dried to me. You are SOL if disabled. Apparently you can't even let the term renew.
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Bit of an update. No, there is no conversion allowed if disabled, whether on wavier or not. She is checking with claims to see what happens in year 21 of a 20 year term.

She seemed shocked when I told her some companies will convert you automatically at the end of the level period.

 

[Larry Tew]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

1. No, you can't convert while the waiver is paying the premium. That would be a sweet benefit.

2. Some plans have automatic conversions at a certain age if still disabled - set by the company, not chosen by the insured.

3. Most WP riders say they will waive "all premiums coming due" while the rider is in force (age 65 usually). If your client bought the policy at age 30 and immediately became disabled (before age 65 while the WP rider is in force) and was still disabled going into the 21st year (age 50) the WP would continue to waive the premium since a 20 year term is really "term to 95 with level premiums in years 1-20". The year 21 premium is "a premium coming due" by definition.

 

[WinoBlues]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

I just got an email from a company, that $4,200 was just eft'd to me on a conversion of a 15 level term in the 14th year. On waiver. (Advanced 75%) Clients are in AZ. All done by email and fax. Not even a stamp. Sweet deal indeed! I have claims looking for all my clients under waiver.

1. No, you can't convert while the waiver is paying the premium. That would be a sweet benefit.

2. Some plans have automatic conversions at a certain age if still disabled - set by the company, not chosen by the insured.

3. Most WP riders say they will waive "all premiums coming due" while the rider is in force (age 65 usually). If your client bought the policy at age 30 and immediately became disabled (before age 65 while the WP rider is in force) and was still disabled going into the 21st year (age 50) the WP would continue to waive the premium since a 20 year term is really "term to 95 with level premiums in years 1-20". The year 21 premium is "a premium coming due" by definition.

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I'm waiting on the supervisor to call me back. But I asked in year 20 of a twenty year term what happens. "It goes away."

Sounds pretty crappy to me. Pay a few more dollars and get the ability to convert when you need it most.

On their Termsetter 20 illustration, under conversion privilege "3. You are not totally disabled as defined in any rider of this policy providing wavier of premium."

Sounds pretty cut and dried to me. You are SOL if disabled. Apparently you can't even let the term renew.
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Bit of an update. No, there is no conversion allowed if disabled, whether on wavier or not. She is checking with claims to see what happens in year 21 of a 20 year term.

She seemed shocked when I told her some companies will convert you automatically at the end of the level period.

That and or at the last age to convert?

 

[VolAgent]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

1. No, you can't convert while the waiver is paying the premium. That would be a sweet benefit.

2. Some plans have automatic conversions at a certain age if still disabled - set by the company, not chosen by the insured.

3. Most WP riders say they will waive "all premiums coming due" while the rider is in force (age 65 usually). If your client bought the policy at age 30 and immediately became disabled (before age 65 while the WP rider is in force) and was still disabled going into the 21st year (age 50) the WP would continue to waive the premium since a 20 year term is really "term to 95 with level premiums in years 1-20". The year 21 premium is "a premium coming due" by definition.

I can think of several companies off hand that allow conversion while on wavier during conversion period, at the insured's choice. Also, if you are outside of conversion, but during level term, they will convert at the end of the level term. Additionally, if you become disabled prior to age 55-60 (depends on the company), premiums will be waived for the remainder of the insured's life if still disabled.

That said, everyone I talked to at Cinci seemed to believe you were SOL in year 21. Suggests that is probably the case.

Larry, I know you've worked with Guardian, I would assume their wavier/conversion policy is similar to Mass's. My primary company now, Lincoln, is similar in their policy. I'm just surprised everyone was bragging on Cincinnati, and they have such a big hole in their wavier.

I know people always had water cooler debates at Mass about converting if disabled. Plenty of upside to doing it early if the person never recovered, but since you cannot unconvert, they were afraid of what if they converted and the person became able to work again.

The supervisor said she would get back to me on Monday about what happens after the level period.

 

[CFP83]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

This is all GREAT information to know as I am evaluating options. I am definately checking Cincy Life off my list. Since my original post on this thread I've figured out a great deal about each of the companies I'm considering.

So I'm sitting here sizing up the options. Again, I'm only examining a small portion of my cases for this new term option. The first scenerio is small term cases ($600 or less) and older clients needing some term (age 60+). Now, personally I don't believe anyone should buy term who is 60+ but there are those situations where it is a necessity and conversion likelihood is much "lower than normal". My current term go to options pay me 65% and 90% respectively, and, I will continue to go to them for the vast majority of all my clients and cases in the 30-55 age bracket(I would guess roughly 80%).

I have to admit this Assurity contract is looking like an unbelievable deal. They have a "non-med 350 term" product, where face amounts of 350k or less need no exam, and has an e-app to use. With my production verification I was able to get an very nice contract. The payout for the level-term 20 & 30 is at 130%, 15 year at 120%, 10 year at 110%. For all term cases above 350k the comp is 10 pts lower across all three of level products. Finally there is a 2.5% renewal years 2-10. Now that someone pointed out that Assurity has an UL too in addition to their whole life, which I didn't know, that makes their conversion opportunities a bit better if the client were to ever need it.

I have to admit their lack of Comdex and A- A.M Best rating makes me nervous, which brings up another question...anyone know how high the state guarantee fund in Ohio goes up to? Asking because I want to know what would happen to my clients coverage if they were insured by say an Assurity, who then went belly up and was a taco stand next year.

I thought I would update you all on what I have found out in my little case study here so far. Again, what a great thread with good productive conversation. Keep in coming, I think we're all learning a lot here.

 

[Larry Tew]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

I can think of several companies off hand that allow conversion while on wavier during conversion period, at the insured's choice...

Larry, I know you've worked with Guardian, I would assume their wavier/conversion policy is similar to Mass's. My primary company now, Lincoln, is similar in their policy. I'm just surprised everyone was bragging on Cincinnati, and they have such a big hole in their wavier.

Here's my underlying thought. I have a term policy with a $500 annual premium. I get disabled, waiver kicks in. I tell the company I want to convert to the highest non-mec WL with an annual premium of $5,000. The company does the conversion and now I have a high cash value plan growing with me not paying anything. I recover after 5 years. I now have a policy with 20k cash value. I can either take over the 5k annual premium or I could cash out for 20k, having put in ZERO DOLLARS of my own money.

Are you guys saying this scenario is what you believe to be true?

 

[scagnt83]

Re: Who Do You Like for "ease of Doing Business & Best Comp" on T

Unless the disability was to the extent that you know for certain you are not going back to work for 4+ years, then I would not convert any more than what the client could afford to pay for under normal times.

What happens when they are back to work and cant afford the $5K premium? They have to drop their LI policy is what happens; and what happens if they are no longer insurable???....

You would be taking a very large risk unless it was certain that the disability was going to be lasting.

Yes you have the CV accumulated, but at that point, it alone will not be enough to continue the policy.
Yes you can cash it out, but then you have no more LI. If your still insurable after the disability then your looking at new rates new underwriting, etc, etc.