Why Do Suzie Orman and Dave Ramsey Trash WL So Much?

I cant disagree with you on that one. For some reason I just dont find him trustworthy. I may be totally wrong but its just a feeling I get.
 
I cant disagree with you on that one. For some reason I just dont find him trustworthy. I may be totally wrong but its just a feeling I get.

Whenever someone spends a bunch of time telling you about their Christian values the smart money is on protecting your pocketbook.
 
Ten years as an ELP, but I terminated a few months ago. Leads turned to crap and he started advertising that Zander was the best place ot go for advice regarding health insurance. I told them this was so disingenuous and those remarks should be for his health ELP's. Got tired of him always putting him first.
In addition, his ELp's aren't really very vetted.
 
I posted a comment on Dave's website once (on the life insurance page) about term vs. perm. It was totally professional, but, it was... deleted. Oh well.

I guess permanent insurance isn't very Christian according to Dave. :skeptical:

But then again, who is he to judge? I dislike how he mixes his religious beliefs with his financial advice, like if you don't do it his way, you are less of a Christian. :mad:

</end rant>
 
I had a new Dave Ramsey fan as a son of an FE applicant yesterday.

He liked the premium. The locked in rate, the fact that dad could get first day coverage, etc. but then he asked if this policy built cash value.

Yes, it does build cash up after the 2nd year.

Nope! We don't want this one then. No cash value insurance.

So if I have a company that will be the exact same on everything but doesn't build cash value, that's what you want?

Yes.

You are a Dave Ramsey fan aren't you?

Yes.

Listen, all the cash value means is that if your dad pays on this policy for a few years and then cancels, he gets some of his money back. I can sell your dad a term plan with no cash value but the rate will increase next year at age 75 and if your dad doesn't die by age 80 it will cancel him entirely.

Why would Dave recommend that?

Because if you dad sells everything he owns and moves into your basement and invests all of his money with Dave's Enorsement providers they will get him over 12% on his money and he will be rich by age 80 and not need life insurance at that point.

OK, we will take this one.

I work with a Dave Ramsey ELP agency and we get ton's of business from his show, especially on the financial side.

IMO, there is a time in your life when life insurance is not necessary, and whole life insurance is a terrible use of my money. When I turn 59 1/2, my home will be paid for, my children will be out of the house, I will be debt free (unless I buy that home in Florida),my 401K (2 of them), along with my wife's government pension and 401K, will be looking good, etc. The only thing life insurance will be good for is my funeral. I would NEVER but whole life insurance..

However, I take a slightly different approach than ole Dave. I believe that the money saved should be used to protect my future and keeping the nursing home or hospital from taking everything I've worked for. I believe in using the extra for long-term care, disability (which I don't need because of renewals) and and other types of critical illness coverages.

Just my way of thinking...I would say the decision on what type of insurance to buy is based on the individual that you are offering it to
 
They don't understand it. I think if you Google Suzie Orman hard, going back years, you'll find critics of hers who point out how she wasn't a good planner or agent. I think she is a know it all who is good in front of a camera.

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I posted a comment on Dave's website once (on the life insurance page) about term vs. perm. It was totally professional, but, it was... deleted. Oh well.

I guess permanent insurance isn't very Christian according to Dave. :skeptical:

But then again, who is he to judge? I dislike how he mixes his religious beliefs with his financial advice, like if you don't do it his way, you are less of a Christian. :mad:

</end rant>

I am independent now, was at Northwestern Mutual for 10 years (a wirehouse for ten years before that). Northwestern Mutual pays a claim on 2% of term policies. The only way to ensure that you leave a legacy for your kids and grandchildren is to own permanent insurance or transfer part of your investments into a trust for their benefit.

By far the best asset to hold in a trust is a permanent life insurance policy because it skips two tax returns (your last tax return and your estate tax return). When you calculate the taxable equivalent rate of return, to the beneficiary, of a tax free death benefit paid into a trust for their benefit the numbers are astounding.

Big thinkers buy this stuff. It is how a family goes from flying coach to flying first class.

I show permanent and term, most people buy term. Their kids will board the plane to Florida after my kids. By the time they squeeze into their seat my kids will be ordering their second drink.
 
By far the best asset to hold in a trust is a permanent life insurance policy because it skips two tax returns (your last tax return and your estate tax return).

Any asset held in an Irrevocable Trust skips two tax returns. Depends on when you die if it is the best asset .
 
Suzie Dave and Clark are talking about folks who are still working: Buy Term and Invest the Rest. This has been the slogan since the 1980's, so they aren't saying anything new.

I have actually hear clark put on the spot, and he agreed that for elderly folks, to have a small ($10-15k) WL is just fine for final expence, if the individual isn't already a milionaire from 'investing the rest'.

Basically, all insurance used to be whole life. People would buy 3-7 times their annual income in whole life. Then they came out with Term and mutual funds. The new hot ticket was 'Buy term, invest the rest'. Except most people forgot about the 2nd part of that advice, and didn't invest.
Now they need a small whole life for funeral expenses.

Now, all you agents out there. You get a client in their 30s-40s with 2 kids and a mortgage. He makes $50k a year, and wants $500,000 in insurance to protect his future earnings.
No. you DON'T sell them $500k in whole life, tell them they can borrow cash value for their kids college, and when they're 65 they can use the remaining cash value to retire.

You sell them TERM. In the distant past, people would have bought $500k in WL. Not anymore.

But wow, that would be a great living, selling 1/2 million dollar WL policies to Joe Middleclass. RNA quotes $4-6k annual prem for that policy...if we could do that 4 or 5 times a week, life might be pretty good lol....

Dave, Susie and Clark are ALL correct...in this scenario....they are simply not being clear about the scenario.

If any one of them recieved a call that went like this: "I'm 70 years old, I don't work, I don't have assets, live on a fixed incom, my kids don't have assets and they have children of their own to care for, do you think it would be good to get a small $10k WL policy for $50mo that goes into full effect immediatly?

I can't possibly see how any of the 3 would say 'no'.....or maybe Dave Ramsey would tell them to pay off their house and sign it over to the funeral home....lol....

Or.....get on the business end of a lawnmower and earn some extra money to afford a $20k policy and sell everything else LOL
 
Or.....get on the business end of a lawnmower and earn some extra money to afford a $20k policy and sell everything else LOL

So they can't buy 50 to 100k of whole life and some level term to meet the current need and the future one?

I mean nothing wrong with what you're suggesting except whole life doesn't get any cheaper as time goes by. Holding off on the purchase of some whole life simply for the majority of people out there as they age prices it out of reach.

I run into this all the time. They had enough money to buy all sorts of crap during their earning years and then as they retire, they have no money and are stuck, or should I say their spouse is stuck with not much.

Nothing wrong with 500k term, but nothing wrong with 100k wl and 400 term either. Waiting later to make a whole life purchase usually isn't a good idea.

It's not an all or nothing scenario, it's a find a combination that works short and long term. Cheers.
 
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