Life Ins W LTC

pfg1

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Looking for ideas on a LI policy w LTC. My client is female, 66, should be std/nt... she lives in PA. I'm in VA. What are some good companies/products?

She doesn't really want to pay for a stand alone LTC policy, so I figured this might be a good option, as she could use the LTC benefits if necc... if she doesn't, then the death benefit is there for her heirs.

I'm not real familiar with the options in this area. I have looked at Lincoln's Money Guard 2, seems pretty decent. She will do a 10pay, and on the mg it stays in force to 120. I'm guessing she could do somewhere around $5k-$7k annual premium. We haven't dug too deep yet on that.

Any suggestions? Appreciate any help/ideas on this. Thanks!
 
Looking for ideas on a LI policy w LTC. My client is female, 66, should be std/nt... she lives in PA. I'm in VA. What are some good companies/products?

She doesn't really want to pay for a stand alone LTC policy, so I figured this might be a good option, as she could use the LTC benefits if necc... if she doesn't, then the death benefit is there for her heirs.

I'm not real familiar with the options in this area. I have looked at Lincoln's Money Guard 2, seems pretty decent. She will do a 10pay, and on the mg it stays in force to 120. I'm guessing she could do somewhere around $5k-$7k annual premium. We haven't dug too deep yet on that.

Any suggestions? Appreciate any help/ideas on this. Thanks!

Well, moneyguard is an OK option in PA, but 5000-7000/year for 10 pay will only buy a little bit of LTC coverage. Do the basic option (not the vested) to enhance the LTC benefit and/or minimize the premium by 10%.
 
If she can afford it Mass Mutual is the best bet. But you have to pay for WL underneath the LTC Rider/Benefit. If she could swing $10k/y she could get a 3 year benefit on their 10 Pay. (along with a 3%-4% RoR on the CV of the policy)
With Mass there is no stipulation of needing the care permanently (except for in NY).

It is available on their 10Pay/20Pay/65WL/100WL/HECV-WL

On the 10 Pay, assuming she comes in as Standard:

$10k/y= 3 Year LTC Benefit of $3k/m (at 3 years & under the benefit is level)

$14k/y= 4 years @ $3k/m but with an increasing benefit

$17k/y= 5 years @ $3k/m

$19k/y= 6 years @ $3k/m

Its all at $3k/m because I used the minimum DB allowed for that benefit period.


If she is ok with the stipulation of needing the care permanently (which obviously has a lower likelihood of occurring), then her options really open up. She could get a GUL with Midland or Trans. Or an IUL with LFG/Midland/LSW.


If she can swing a single premium product then Mass Mutual just introduced CareChoice One which is like Money Guard but single premium only.


But at $5k/y at 66 years old she will not get much of anything on a 10 pay chassis.
 
If she can afford it Mass Mutual is the best bet. But you have to pay for WL underneath the LTC Rider/Benefit. If she could swing $10k/y she could get a 3 year benefit on their 10 Pay. (along with a 3%-4% RoR on the CV of the policy)
With Mass there is no stipulation of needing the care permanently (except for in NY).

It is available on their 10Pay/20Pay/65WL/100WL/HECV-WL

On the 10 Pay, assuming she comes in as Standard:

$10k/y= 3 Year LTC Benefit of $3k/m (at 3 years & under the benefit is level)

$14k/y= 4 years @ $3k/m but with an increasing benefit

$17k/y= 5 years @ $3k/m

$19k/y= 6 years @ $3k/m

Its all at $3k/m because I used the minimum DB allowed for that benefit period.


If she is ok with the stipulation of needing the care permanently (which obviously has a lower likelihood of occurring), then her options really open up. She could get a GUL with Midland or Trans. Or an IUL with LFG/Midland/LSW.


If she can swing a single premium product then Mass Mutual just introduced CareChoice One which is like Money Guard but single premium only.


But at $5k/y at 66 years old she will not get much of anything on a 10 pay chassis.

TransAce markets their rider under 7702B and does not require that your condition be permanent.

At 10k/yr she could get 3300 for 4 years. She would also be able to have an ROP for a little over half of her contributions in years 15, 20, and 25+.

Hancock (also 7702B) will give you even more but isn't guaranteed.

Moneyguard will likely outperform Mass, Trans and JH if the driver is LTC. Death benefits (and other features) will be stronger on all of the other carriers...that's the trade off.
 
If she can afford it Mass Mutual is the best bet. But you have to pay for WL underneath the LTC Rider/Benefit. If she could swing $10k/y she could get a 3 year benefit on their 10 Pay. (along with a 3%-4% RoR on the CV of the policy)
With Mass there is no stipulation of needing the care permanently (except for in NY).

It is available on their 10Pay/20Pay/65WL/100WL/HECV-WL

On the 10 Pay, assuming she comes in as Standard:

$10k/y= 3 Year LTC Benefit of $3k/m (at 3 years & under the benefit is level)

$14k/y= 4 years @ $3k/m but with an increasing benefit

$17k/y= 5 years @ $3k/m

$19k/y= 6 years @ $3k/m

Its all at $3k/m because I used the minimum DB allowed for that benefit period.


If she is ok with the stipulation of needing the care permanently (which obviously has a lower likelihood of occurring), then her options really open up. She could get a GUL with Midland or Trans. Or an IUL with LFG/Midland/LSW.


If she can swing a single premium product then Mass Mutual just introduced CareChoice One which is like Money Guard but single premium only.


But at $5k/y at 66 years old she will not get much of anything on a 10 pay chassis.




... and people say that traditional LTC insurance is "too expensive".

my God, for a $3K monthly benefit for 5 years one of the more expensive traditional products would only cost $2,500 per year!

Instead of spending $17K per year for 10 years... just tell her to invest that money in a safe place, and use some of the earnings to buy herself a nice traditional LTCi policy.
 
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TransAce markets their rider under 7702B and does not require that your condition be permanent.

At 10k/yr she could get 3300 for 4 years. She would also be able to have an ROP for a little over half of her contributions in years 15, 20, and 25+.

Hancock (also 7702B) will give you even more but isn't guaranteed.

Good to know. I actually thought I might be wrong when I included all of those.

But they dont come close to the MM rider as far as benefits.

Have you ever looked at a 10pay on the TransAce? Not pretty.
No gain in CV, and around half the LTC benefit the MM Rider gives you for the same money. (by the usual ltc need age)

The MM 10 pay options grows your money at 3%-4%. That is something no other LTC Rider can do (without needing care permanently).

----------

... and people say that traditional LTC insurance is "too expensive".

my God, for a $3K monthly benefit for 5 years one of the more expensive traditional products would only cost $2,500 per year!

Instead of spending $17K per year for 10 years... just tell her to invest that money in a safe place, and use some of the earnings to buy herself a nice traditional LTCi policy.

When I ran her numbers with GW (5years, 3k, 3%) it came out to $3,300/y.

That means if you did a "safe investment" at $17k/y, you would need a return of 19.5% per year not to eat into your principal..... do you know where to get 19.5% per year with no risk of loss? I do not. If you cant hit 19.5% per year your "investment" is loosing money quickly.


The value of the WL option is in the fact that your money is not put to sleep like MG and you do not eat into principle like a sinking fund option. You are leveraging your money just like a MG product, only in a more effective way. You sacrifice a slightly lower LTC benefit for an extremely greater RoR on premium.




Now I do not expect you to agree since you have shown time and time again on this forum that you hate WL insurance and think that Dividends will never be paid (despite MM paying dividends every year for over 100 years).

But you dont have to agree. Clients see the value in it and that is the only thing that matters to me. So we can agree to disagree.

The OP wanted a 10 Pay life option. This is hands down the best 10 pay option on the market imo.
 
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Good to know. I actually thought I might be wrong when I included all of those.

But they dont come close to the MM rider as far as benefits.

Have you ever looked at a 10pay on the TransAce? Not pretty.
No gain in CV, and around half the LTC benefit the MM Rider gives you for the same money. (by the usual ltc need age)

I have looked at it. The numbers that I quoted you were on a 10 pay from trans using 10k/yr.
 
Good to know. I actually thought I might be wrong when I included all of those.

But they dont come close to the MM rider as far as benefits.

Have you ever looked at a 10pay on the TransAce? Not pretty.
No gain in CV, and around half the LTC benefit the MM Rider gives you for the same money. (by the usual ltc need age)

The MM 10 pay options grows your money at 3%-4%. That is something no other LTC Rider can do (without needing care permanently).

----------



When I ran her numbers with GW (5years, 3k, 3%) it came out to $3,300/y.

That means if you did a "safe investment" at $17k/y, you would need a return of 19.5% per year not to eat into your principal..... do you know where to get 19.5% per year with no risk of loss? I do not. If you cant hit 19.5% per year your "investment" is loosing money quickly.


The value of the WL option is in the fact that your money is not put to sleep like MG and you do not eat into principle like a sinking fund option. You are leveraging your money just like a MG product, only in a more effective way. You sacrifice a slightly lower LTC benefit for an extremely greater RoR on premium.




Now I do not expect you to agree since you have shown time and time again on this forum that you hate WL insurance and think that Dividends will never be paid (despite MM paying dividends every year for over 100 years).

But you dont have to agree. Clients see the value in it and that is the only thing that matters to me. So we can agree to disagree.

The OP wanted a 10 Pay life option. This is hands down the best 10 pay option on the market imo.


what is the inflation benefit on the MM whole life policy?
 
I got a quote on MG to see what it would look like. At $7k/yr for 10yrs, it pays right at $3k/yr for 6yrs on the LTC (max of $215k total), and has $111k death benefit at yr 10, that gradually decreases to just under $72k at age 99. Stays in force at that DB until age 120. ROP is 100% after yr 10.

This seems like a good hybrid product, but I've never done any type of suedo LTC policy... so I really don't know. Appreciate the input from all of you so far.
 
I got a quote on MG to see what it would look like. At $7k/yr for 10yrs, it pays right at $3k/yr for 6yrs on the LTC (max of $215k total), and has $111k death benefit at yr 10, that gradually decreases to just under $72k at age 99. Stays in force at that DB until age 120. ROP is 100% after yr 10.

This seems like a good hybrid product, but I've never done any type of suedo LTC policy... so I really don't know. Appreciate the input from all of you so far.

It can work on a 10 pay...you'll have better options on a single pay.

If the client can do a single pay though, you'll want to do an analysis. I had a client this week wanting to do 100k each for him and his wife into GW's TLC (a very solid hybrid).

The same premium into a SPIA gave them enough income to pay for both an SUL and a traditional LTC policy (with enough left over to pay some taxes and/or potential rate increases).

That means that if one or both of them need LTC coverage, they get both the death benefit for their kids AND have most of their likely LTC needs paid for; this would not be the case with a hybrid.

The only thing that they give up is the right to change their mind, but who wants to work with indecisive clients anyway...
 
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