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Old 05-19-2017, 04:37 PM   #1
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Lincoln Money Guard Question Lincoln Money Guard Question
Can anyone provide a reason or best guess as to why Lincoln MG does not include a signed illustration with their policies when issued? The client is required to sign one as part of the application process.....and I am used to ALWAYS having an illustration with other standard life policies I deal with.

The reason for asking is that I have occasionally had clients, upon policy delivery, start questioning all the confusing internal detail pages of the policy....so I have gotten in the habit of including a copy of the illustration that they originally signed, and say "that is what you go by....and the rest is all required by law that they display it." I am a firm believer in the illustration being the gospel as to what you bought.


I know it is not rocket science, but it seems to make sense that the signed illustration...the page that says "all these values are guaranteed" .....should be part of the policy.

Thanks

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Old 05-19-2017, 06:54 PM   #2
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Lincoln Money Guard Question Re: Lincoln Money Guard Question
Originally Posted by yankee466 View Post
Can anyone provide a reason or best guess as to why Lincoln MG does not include a signed illustration with their policies when issued? The client is required to sign one as part of the application process.....and I am used to ALWAYS having an illustration with other standard life policies I deal with.

The reason for asking is that I have occasionally had clients, upon policy delivery, start questioning all the confusing internal detail pages of the policy....so I have gotten in the habit of including a copy of the illustration that they originally signed, and say "that is what you go by....and the rest is all required by law that they display it." I am a firm believer in the illustration being the gospel as to what you bought.


I know it is not rocket science, but it seems to make sense that the signed illustration...the page that says "all these values are guaranteed" .....should be part of the policy.

Thanks

Maybe LFG wants to avoid the total benefit pool numbers within the illustration which forward capture inflation growth being different from the LABR and EOBR benefit pool numbers printed within the policy which do not forward capture the inflation growth.

Anyway, I do not believe point of sale illustrations are required to be included within bound issued policies.


Last edited by ltcadviser; 05-19-2017 at 07:04 PM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:26 AM   #3
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Lincoln Money Guard Question Re: Lincoln Money Guard Question
Originally Posted by ltcadviser View Post
Maybe LFG wants to avoid the total benefit pool numbers within the illustration which forward capture inflation growth being different from the LABR and EOBR benefit pool numbers printed within the policy which do not forward capture the inflation growth.

Anyway, I do not believe point of sale illustrations are required to be included within bound issued policies.
"forward capture"????????
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Old 05-20-2017, 11:42 AM   #4
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Lincoln Money Guard Question Re: Lincoln Money Guard Question
Originally Posted by Mr_Ed View Post
"forward capture"????????
Sure. For example, if you buy $6000 month with a 6 year multipler, your initial pool of money will be $432,000. Let's say you buy 3% compound inflation. Traditionally, LTC insurance company illustrations would show $432,000 in year 1, $444,960 year 2 etc.

Well, Lincoln illustrates ~$465,725 in year 1 on its illustration. It accumulates all of the 3% compounded growth over 6 years to illustrate the total amount of inflation adjusted benefit derived over 6 years.

The policy however will show LABR $144,000 + EOBR $288,000.

So, consumers get confused. The annual statements also do not forward capture the inflation.

A Lincoln employee stated to me once that the reason for this was a reaction to Pacific Life implementing the practice first.

So it was reactionary. Illustration wars, so to speak. Now, Nationwide, Minny Life all do it too.

What's interesting is I have caught Lincoln wholesalers using their illustrations to tell consumers that their policy provides greater benefits than a traditional LTC policy (through for example, Mutual of Omaha) which will illustrate $432,000 in year 1 because the software with all traditional LTC companies do not as of yet forward capture the growth.

So, the illustrations are utilized by the wholesalers for a lot of dirty pool and consumer manipulation.

Great stuff, huh.
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Last edited by ltcadviser; 05-20-2017 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 05-20-2017, 12:19 PM   #5
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Lincoln Money Guard Question Re: Lincoln Money Guard Question
Originally Posted by ltcadviser View Post
Sure. For example, if you buy $6000 month with a 6 year multipler, your initial pool of money will be $432,000. Let's say you buy 3% compound inflation. Traditionally, LTC insurance company illustrations would show $432,000 in year 1, $444,960 year 2 etc.

Well, Lincoln illustrates ~$465,725 in year 1 on its illustration. It accumulates all of the 3% compounded growth over 6 years to illustrate the total amount of inflation adjusted benefit derived over 6 years.

The policy however will show LABR $144,000 + EOBR $288,000.

So, consumers get confused. The annual statements also do not forward capture the inflation.

A Lincoln employee stated to me once that the reason for this was a reaction to Pacific Life implementing the practice first.

So it was reactionary. Illustration wars, so to speak. Now, Nationwide, Minny Life all do it too.

What's interesting is I have caught Lincoln wholesalers using their illustrations to tell consumers that their policy provides greater benefits than a traditional LTC policy (through for example, Mutual of Omaha) which will illustrate $432,000 in year 1 because the software with all traditional LTC companies do not as of yet forward capture the growth.

So, the illustrations are utilized by the wholesalers for a lot of dirty pool and consumer manipulation.

Great stuff, huh.

Thanks, Jack, for taking the time to explain that.
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:59 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Mr_Ed View Post
Thanks, Jack, for taking the time to explain that.
When I first sold MG, I did not understand where the $465K came from...until one day a client asked why it was not 72 times the monthly benefit, and I could not answer the question.....then it dawned on me what they were doing. I just assumed it was X 72, and I never bothered to check. It was a head scratcher at first.

hence back to the initial question of wouldn't it be nice to remind the client what they applied for by including the illustration with the policy when delivered. if not for the reason Jack mentioned, how about the declining death benefit instead of just showing the least death benefit amount they could pay when the client is 100 years old.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:10 PM   #7
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Lincoln Money Guard Question Re: Lincoln Money Guard Question
Originally Posted by yankee466 View Post
When I first sold MG, I did not understand where the $465K came from...until one day a client asked why it was not 72 times the monthly benefit, and I could not answer the question.....then it dawned on me what they were doing. I just assumed it was X 72, and I never bothered to check. It was a head scratcher at first.

hence back to the initial question of wouldn't it be nice to remind the client what they applied for by including the illustration with the policy when delivered. if not for the reason Jack mentioned, how about the declining death benefit instead of just showing the least death benefit amount they could pay when the client is 100 years old.

Herman, like you I also insert the illustration into the policy folder upon delivery. It is the best approach.
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:07 PM   #8
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Lincoln Money Guard Question Re: Lincoln Money Guard Question
Originally Posted by yankee466 View Post
Can anyone provide a reason or best guess as to why Lincoln MG does not include a signed illustration with their policies
And.....Guess what question I received this afternoon?
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Old 05-23-2017, 05:57 PM   #9
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small world!!!

I rest my case.
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Old 05-23-2017, 06:36 PM   #10
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Lincoln Money Guard Question Re: Lincoln Money Guard Question
Originally Posted by yankee466 View Post
small world!!!

I rest my case.
Asset Care also does not include the illustration, btw.
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