Mutual of Omaha Joins The Party

[billberry12]

OK. So...what do you think the answer to this deliema might be? Anything different than what the LTCI companies are doing? I'm not arguing that these are facts, I'm just saying that I tell folks about this, and they sign a form that I have told them. I do believe that the big players in this industry, GW, MOO, Pru, are doing what they have to do. What else can you ask of these folks?

 

[Mr_Ed]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

JH actually had an 80%-110% on one line of policies in 2005..... not a great selling point
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It's no wonder that you think that LTCi is doomed when someone is feeding you bullsh*t like this.

None of the JH policies had premium increases until 2008! And the highest one I found was 13%.

Here's the link:

http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0100-co...ate-history-guide/upload/65099JOHNHANCOCK.pdf

 

[scagnt83]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -




It's no wonder that you think that LTCi is doomed when someone is feeding you bullsh*t like this.

None of the JH policies had premium increases until 2008! And the highest one I found was 13%.

Here's the link:

http://www.insurance.ca.gov/0100-co...ate-history-guide/upload/65099JOHNHANCOCK.pdf

Thats funny; again, I will tell you to listen to the carriers themselves; they are the ones feeding it to me...

That is straight from the JH app!!!!!!
(like I told you in the reply to your pm)

Here is the link:
JH app

In 2005 the state of VA had an 88%-110% increase..... my home state had up to a 56% increase that year.

its on page 12 & 13; along with multiple 10%-40% increases
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, JH should be ashamed of themselves for what they did last year with the group market; there was no warning at all.


My firm had just quoted a 5000 person group using JH, fortunately for us they decided to hold off until this year to implement any LTC changes..... we didnt know we were fortunate until the middle of the benefits fair when we all got emails informing us of the cancellation of group sales!!

They even blindsided their wholesalers on that one!.... thats just wrong

 

[Mr_Ed]

Thats funny; again, I will tell you to listen to the carriers themselves; they are the ones feeding it to me...

That is straight from the JH app!!!!!!
(like I told you in the reply to your pm)

Here is the link:
JH app

In 2005 the state of VA had an 88%-110% increase..... my home state had up to a 56% increase that year.

its on page 12 & 13; along with multiple 10%-40% increases
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
-------------------------------------------------------

Honestly, JH should be ashamed of themselves for what they did last year with the group market; there was no warning at all.


My firm had just quoted a 5000 person group using JH, fortunately for us they decided to hold off until this year to implement any LTC changes..... we didnt know we were fortunate until the middle of the benefits fair when we all got emails informing us of the cancellation of group sales!!

They even blindsided their wholesalers on that one!.... thats just wrong

1) That was a Fortis policy series, not a John Hancock policy series.

2) There were 5,058 policies sold in that series nationwide.

3) Although that policy series was sold in nearly every state, the increase you reference was requested in only 4 states and approved in only 1 state.

4) At most, this increase effected less than five one-hundredths of one percent of the policies they administrate (.05%)... (approximately 5 out of every 10,000 policyholders).

5) To be polite, your statement, although technically not a lie, is, at least, misleading and most certainly disingenuous.



nadm

 

[scagnt83]

1) That was a Fortis policy series, not a John Hancock policy series.

2) There were 5,058 policies sold in that series nationwide.

3) Although that policy series was sold in nearly every state, the increase you reference was requested in only 4 states and approved in only 1 state.

4) At most, this increase effected less than five one-hundredths of one percent of the policies they administrate (.05%)... (approximately 5 out of every 10,000 policyholders).

5) To be polite, your statement, although technically not a lie, is, at least, misleading and most certainly disingenuous.



nadm

Never tried to mislead, only used it as an example, and it was an example in context to another statement, not a blanket attack at LTCI; and I said it was an extreme example and not a common increase.... so how exactly is that misleading again??

Plus I also stated what some of the more common increases were.... Maybe you forgot to read all of my post.... kind of like the app....

When JH is the next to pull out of the market maybe you will start to see things differently... but I am sure that you will be able to explain that to yourself too.


And originally all that I said was that imo the LTCI industry is not sustainable in its current form... the companies are not making the money they need to off of it, and they are scared to death of the unknowns and technological advances in the LTC industry.... its really hard to hedge for the unkown.

 

[Mr_Ed]

Here's your original post which prompted my rebuttal:

And when clients actually pay attention to it they really start to get second thoughts...

JH actually had an 80%-110% on one line of policies in 2005..... not a great selling point
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -



Refer to my previous post; if you think increases like that are due to "inflationary measures" instead of actuarial miscalculations your the one that needs the meds buddy

Here's your description of your original post (I added the bold and the italics):

Never tried to mislead, only used it as an example, and it was an example in context to another statement, not a blanket attack at LTCI; and I said it was an extreme example and not a common increase.... so how exactly is that misleading again??

Plus I also stated what some of the more common increases were.... Maybe you forgot to read all of my post.... kind of like the app....

When JH is the next to pull out of the market maybe you will start to see things differently... but I am sure that you will be able to explain that to yourself too.


And originally all that I said was that imo the LTCI industry is not sustainable in its current form... the companies are not making the money they need to off of it, and they are scared to death of the unknowns and technological advances in the LTC industry.... its really hard to hedge for the unkown.

Where in your original post did you state that it was an "extreme example" and "not a common increase"?

 

[scagnt83]

Here's your original post which prompted my rebuttal:



Here's your description of your original post (I added the bold and the italics):


Where in your original post did you state that it was an "extreme example" and "not a common increase"?

I am not going to take the effort to requote my own posts; but that was not my original post, it was my third or fourth; and it was the second one you responded to....

Again I would suggest to you to take the time to read!!
If you looked at my post directly under the one you quoted, you would see where I said it was an extreme example.

But just like the applications you fill out; you dont take the time to actually read......
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -


None of the JH policies had premium increases until 2008! And the highest one I found was 13%.

This goes back to you not fully reading; I found 9 different rate increases that were over 13%......

I dont care what policy series they were, they were LTC policies with actuarial assumptions that were originally WAY off base

 

[GAHEALTH]

What do you guys think of the life policies with living benefits.....accelerate part of the db to pay ltc costs? Granted most are based on term policies but can go up to 40 years based on age. Example 30 yo $750000 with max acceleration for ltc $500000 for like $65/mo.

 

[billberry12]

If it's term, forget it in my opinion. Reason, LTCI is planning for the final part of life. Term insurance is temporary. There is nothing temporary about the final part of life. It is going to happen. Permanent Life with an LTCI rider normally is more expensive and less beneficial than a stand alone LTCI plan, and a stand alone permanent life plan. So, I guess what I'm saying is, I don't think too much of these combo products. I guess they have their place if the prospect is in total denial that he will ever need LTC. Other than that, I can't see it.
Bill

 

[yankee466]

What do you guys think of the life policies with living benefits.....accelerate part of the db to pay ltc costs? Granted most are based on term policies but can go up to 40 years based on age. Example 30 yo $750000 with max acceleration for ltc $500000 for like $65/mo.

I know you are referring to a permanent plan. West Coast Life, for example, has an excellent option as you describe with accelerating the death benefit (cash) for a LTC need in their NLGUL plan

Definite market for it...and the underwriting is of course life underwriting more than LTC underwriting......which can help in many situations...or hurt in others. Their life plan with the LTC rider is little more in premium than a good standalone life plan....unlike a MoneyGuard or TLC type of product which is really just an overpriced life plan.

I plan to use it for clients really needing cost effective life insurance plus LTC coverage.,.....and when they only want to make a monthly/annual premium payment.

The more options you have to present to a client, the more sales you will make. (unless of course you confuse the crap out of them)