Hello, I am so grateful to all the agents that have responded to my forum. I could not decide whether to sign up with MOO or Monumental. I've read both positive and some negative.
Now I decided to research just 2 more companies. Mass, I've played phone tags with them so much that it just stopped but I found another agency close to me that also trains for Mass Mutual.
Also Guardian....Anyone have experience with these 2 companies and give me a comparison as far as their products/training.
I believe I read here that Guardian is noncaptive and so is Mass Mutual. I've read so much, it would be nice if someone can repeat here if they know whether an agent would own the book of business and if one can sell other lines as well. Thanks.
I am with Mass and I love it. I never talked to Guardian, so I am not too familiar with them. Mass has a broad product line, with strong products in life, disability, annuity and LTC. They also have good mutual funds in addition to the funds available through Oppenheimer. Now, a lot of your experience will depend on your GA and sales manager. Now, you will have to do your Project 200 and 5/2500 to get your full-time contract. But once that is done they have several financing plans to choose from, with good benefits and bonuses.
I know Guardian is very strong in disability, and I am sure they have other good products.
The one thing to keep in mind with the career systems is the differences in compensations. Generally your commission percentage is lower, but it is made up through bonuses, benefits, retirement, and FICA taxes. It is not so much your GA or sales manager, as GAs, IMOs, FMO, etc. all eat up commission money too. The career systems just structure their systems with bonuses to drive you to produce the products they want.
In my opinion MM and Guardian are my two preferences of the old line career companies. Guardian has good Life, the best Disability and some good voluntary products. Guardian's biggest draw back is their broker dealer (Park Avenue Securities) sucks. As long as you maintain a certain level of production you can pretty much sell any insurance product you want. However, certain financial products may be restricted because of the broker dealer. I think Guardian will not let Field Reps sell indexed annuities which will probably change if the FINRA regulation of these products stick. They both support LEAP. You can't go wrong with either one if you have the right GA and a mentor. If all things were equal I would go with MM.
Thanks, do you know if both companies are noncaptive, do they let you take your book of business with you or does that stay with them?..With MOo, even though noncaptive, the book of business belongs to them as I understand now.
The other thing that got my attention is the Efinancial, do you think it is workable to go with either Guardian or MM and later be involve at the same time with something like EFinancial, would they allow this?
I'd say it depends on the GA. That said, I don't believe you understand where MM and Guardian are strong. Efinancial would probably be a waste of your time with either one. They are not about how much cheap term you can write, its all about the client/agent relationship and strength of the company. With MM and Guardian, you are ideally quoting the price of the insurance just so they know how much to make the check out for, it should already be a done deal. Efinancial appears to be about seeing if your quote is cheaper than someone else's.
At Mass the book of business is yours, you just need the client's permission to take a copy of the file with you. And really, if you've done the client right, they'll stay with you regardless of what the company says.
I'd say it depends on the GA. That said, I don't believe you understand where MM and Guardian are strong. Efinancial would probably be a waste of your time with either one. They are not about how much cheap term you can write, its all about the client/agent relationship and strength of the company. With MM and Guardian, you are ideally quoting the price of the insurance just so they know how much to make the check out for, it should already be a done deal. Efinancial appears to be about seeing if your quote is cheaper than someone else's.
At Mass the book of business is yours, you just need the client's permission to take a copy of the file with you. And really, if you've done the client right, they'll stay with you regardless of what the company says.
With either one you could also sell through Efinancial if you want to and have a need to. Although probably both MM & Guardian (I know Guardian does) have affiliated brokerages where you can pick up products they don't offer and still receive production credit on your career contract. If you go with MM or Guardian you won't want to sell anyone elses life insurance except in some rare cases.
If you go with either MM or Guardian forget the other stuff and go all out for them and let them train you.
Yes, MM uses ASH and you some credit towards your contract that way. It won't really help her on her contract for the first few years though. But as xrac said, let them train you their way. All the big carriers have a good training program, and if you are willing to do exactly what they ask and how they ask, you should succeed. Where most fail is that they won't actually do what is asked of them.
That said, do remember that you are interview your future manager as much as the person is interviewing you. Make sure you can work with this person for at least the next 3 years.
There is no real comparison - MM has over 81 billion in invested assets versus Guardian's less then 27 billion of ia.
Plus Guardian has been using profits from their group business to subsidize their life dividends and Mass does not do group so thee is no subsidizing...according to LIMRA,for 2008, MM is the third highest seller of whole life and theri legacy product is dynamite
There is the tip of the ice berg - best of my knowledge, MM requires a minimum college bachelors degree and do not know about Guardian -
Thanks, I guess I won't qualify for MM then. I only have an AA degree. Well, I will go ahead and still send my resume. But if I don't get in, you would agree that going with Guardian is better than MOO ? Also for future reference, can independent agents contract/sell MM and Guardian?
Thanks, I guess I won't qualify for MM then. I only have an AA degree. Well, I will go ahead and still send my resume. But if I don't get in, you would agree that going with Guardian is better than MOO ? Also for future reference, can independent agents contract/sell MM and Guardian?
Go on line and do the application thing with MM what do you have to lose. THey will at least talk to you. I don't know about the degree part. I don't think you have to have a degree with Guardian. You don't have to be a career agent to sell either's product line. What state are you in?
Thanks, I'm in CA..I sent in my resume today and they called me back today. This is for MM, Guardian also called me yesterday. MM, I have an interview for next week. That's great to know that you can sell either one even as an independent agent.
Great to know. Thanks for sharing. Hopefully I end up making the right choice.
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Can you share what your career experience with Mass was like?
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Also, do you know if this is true, someone mentioned that MM products are mostly for white collar and MOO has more for blue collar , also that MoO has more product selection. Do you know where Guardian products would be at?
Last edited by insurancemet : 06-19-2009 at 03:33 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
You can broker with MM - do not think you can broker with Guardian (Guardian refers to Berkshire as Guardian but it is Berkshire and is owned by Guardina but very weak financials and Guardian's argument about standing behind Berkshire does not hold with smart attorneys who know Guardian can sell it any time they decide to do so) but who needs them when you can get MM whose IRR (internal rate of return) on their whole life is higher and they are much bigger and stronger than Guardian - and listen to those who know about the "agency" stuff but once you are giving your GA what is required, you can go outside and be paid directly and the GA will not take a piece - GA's and managers take a piece of all compensation unless you go around or outside of them plus most if not all charge you for space, etc once you are thru your probationary period - but
What you need is good training and the best product you can find and MM offers you this; finally, MM is truly global and I do not think Guardian, NYL or NML are and that can't hurt.
Here's how I see it (I'm taking my car in and it is a performance engine): you can use MOBIL1 for your motor oil or you can go cheap and use less expensive synthetic or just good old motor oil - it's your choice - I use MOBIL 1 for my car and prefer to always recommend the best to clients so discuss many companies but recomment MM and explain why.
Bottom line, the clients picks you and trust you to honor your fiduciary duty...
You can broker with MM - do not think you can broker with Guardian (Guardian refers to Berkshire as Guardian but it is Berkshire and is owned by Guardina but very weak financials and Guardian's argument about standing behind Berkshire does not hold with smart attorneys who know Guardian can sell it any time they decide to do so) but who needs them when you can get MM whose IRR (internal rate of return) on their whole life is higher and they are much bigger and stronger than Guardian - and listen to those who know about the "agency" stuff but once you are giving your GA what is required, you can go outside and be paid directly and the GA will not take a piece - GA's and managers take a piece of all compensation unless you go around or outside of them plus most if not all charge you for space, etc once you are thru your probationary period - but
What you need is good training and the best product you can find and MM offers you this; finally, MM is truly global and I do not think Guardian, NYL or NML are and that can't hurt.
Here's how I see it (I'm taking my car in and it is a performance engine): you can use MOBIL1 for your motor oil or you can go cheap and use less expensive synthetic or just good old motor oil - it's your choice - I use MOBIL 1 for my car and prefer to always recommend the best to clients so discuss many companies but recomment MM and explain why.
Bottom line, the clients picks you and trust you to honor your fiduciary duty...
Good luck,
Mary Ann
You can broker with Guardian, I have a brokerage contract.
Project 100, 200 and all its variations are what all the old career carriers will make you do. Basically you list down all your friends, family, business associates, aquantinces, former co-workers, etc. You'll categorize them by age, marital status, children, income, occupation, how long known, and how you know them. Then you'll be expected to start calling on them and telling them what you are doing now. You are expected to get your first business from them, to get your started. Some say, and I recommend, just introducing your new career and firm to these people and ask for referrals. Let them bring up the sales opportunities. Most call this your natural market. Depending on how big this is, how well you know them, and their status in life, you can start out very easy or very hard in your career. From them hopefully you will develop a good referral network.
5/2500 stands for 5 lives and 2500 FYC. That is what you have to do with Mass before they will give you a career contract with subsidy. There are ways to get the career contract without this, but the most popular subsidy requires this amount of production in 3 months first. Also, the lives and FYC are after any splits. Whether or not agents do splits on joint work with agents under Contract B is an office and individual thing. The business doesn't have to be approved, just submitted with a check.
Thank you - the Bachelors can be awarded from any accredited college - my major was finance and my first job was trading silver futures and then went to Investment Banking and only did equity deals; left and started my own business and got the clu, chfc which are designations - not degrees - from The American College - very easy - then matriculated for the Masters in Financial Science Services at The American College (also not difficult but did take time) - so I have two degrees and two designations but what seems to be most helpful is that I do my own research/due diligence - I have been paid to a analyze blue books (the annual filings by life & health companies in the state where domiciled) - so I use my own guidelines and calculations - hope this helps and Happy Fourth, MaryAnn
Mass Mutual , Guardian Life
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