Hi, A couple of MOO agents has mentioned that sometimes their products cost more, you get what you pay for. The other agent said they have or may have better customer service which is worth it. My question, do you think in general their prices are alot more expensive or just slightly or have you found it competitive at times and if the cost is higher, do you think it is worth it. Someone may say insurance is insurance, if it is worth the higher cost, in what? Claim payout, better customer service? Thanks for any input.
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Sorry for the double posting, same as Mutual of Omaha Product Cost, was giving me error message, I thought it didn't go through.
Last edited by insurancemet : 06-11-2009 at 08:34 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
Mutuals are lousy term companies. They don't generally offer competitive term and will re-insure anything above preferred through the same term houses that beat their rates on the street (kind of an irony in that). For a term case, there are far better carrier options that any of the mutuals in terms of both price and product.
Perm, you have to look at the performance on the scale of mutuals. How does MoO compare in dividend scale to the major mutuals like Northwestern Mutual or MassMutual? If they cost more per 1000 of perm coverage than the major mutuals, that would be a very bad sign if their dividend scale is not higher on a participating policy (NML currenly is about 6.7% and Mass is still running in the low 7% range like Guardian and NYL).
What you are hearing is just rah rah. It has no substance. Where the rubber meets the road with life insurance is in the numbers. If you really want the answer, I mean really want the truth, do the following:
1 - run ledgers on a $500,000 paid up at 65 whole life policy with MoO, MassMutual and Northwestern Mutual using current dividend scale on a 40 year old male. Look at the premiums, the performance in the guaranteed column, and the death benefit/cash surrender value at age 65. That will tell you what you need to know. Also, look at what happens in each policy after age 65 when no more premiums are being paid. Look at the values at age 100.
2 - run term ledgers for MoO against WCL, Banner, Empire General and a few other term houses and look at the premium on $500,000 10, 20 and 30 year term on the same 40 year old. How is the premium in comparison? What if you add on ROP? Does MoO offer ROP Term?
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. Dave, I still am not sure how to do all that, just getting into the business and trying to decide which company to go to. Thank you. Tylesia, one responded to my other post which I accidentally duplicated. that all things being equal, death benefits possible riders etc...how can one justify a higher price?
Now is the perfect time to do that because you are still shopping for an agent contract with a carrier.
I would suggest adding interviews with a few of the majors, specifically Northwestern Mutual, MassMutual and New York Life. At each interview/meeting/introduction (however you want to approach it) ask the GA or MP to run you a ledger for a paid at 65 policy whole life ona 40-year-old and a set of term policies. Then you can review them at your leisure and see how the numbers look (look at it like you were the person buying it).
For certain, MassMutual does allow you to broker out term life through their system (used to by Bisys not sure who it is now) so you would have the best access to term houses with Mass. They also have a brokerage contract available if you want to move out into independent status at some point.
For certain, MassMutual does allow you to broker out term life through their system (used to by Bisys not sure who it is now) so you would have the best access to term houses with Mass. They also have a brokerage contract available if you want to move out into independent status at some point.
Mass currently uses ASH and will even count a portion of the business towards validating your contract.
As both Dave and MM and have indicated, a large mutual isn't going to have the cheapest term in town, but most are competitively priced. That said, unless the agent is the greatest thing since sliced bread, I see no reason to pay more for an equivalent product from MoO versus NYL, Northwestern or Mass.
Thanks to all who replied. Dave, one of the reason I wanted to go with MOO is that they are not captive. Would you say in general they cost more than NYL, Mass and NWML.
Also, given the factors being all the same, do you think I should just go with Monumental instead of MOO to train since I wouldn't be able to justify the higher price products with MOO.
Buddy, you need to learn to read, and I don't mean just scan the words, but comprehend.
NYL is not completely captive, Mass is in no shape or form captive, and I do not believe Northwestern is strictly captive either. Now if you really like MoO, go get'em. But at least make sure you understand the playing field first. And stock or not, MetLife is a good company for some agents.
Second, this forum is mainly populated by indy guys, so yes they are going to tell you that being captive is horrible. And they are right, being captive is horrible FOR THEM. Unless you have done the system, you do not know if captive or indy is better for you. However, I'll be completely honest, based on what you have shown on the forum, you are in desperate need of a good system and manager.
1. What you want to sell
2. Who you want to sell it to
3. How much do you want to earn
Price is not always at issue, performance and reputation count for a lot in professional markets. At the kitchen table, making minimum wage sales, price is everything. In the boardroom, price is way way down the list if even a consideration at all.
If you want to sell to mom and pop or a bunch of old people then either is probably fine. If you want to sell to business owners and executives, neither is going to be worth diddly.
When I was with Northwestern Mutual, I and many in my office would regularly score appointments with CEO/COO/CFO of major silicon valley companies (who would then refer us to others to get more appointments). The one constant--the company name. When I would call often they would say "NML, you guys are good.". None of them ever really cared about price, they cared about quality and reputation. When I moved to Gilroy, the local NYL guy was "concerned" that an NML agent was in town and even tried to recruit me away from NML to NYL. I wonder why LOL.
I still think that going captive life insurance with a MAJOR carrier is worth a fortune when you start out. They will train you right, get your skills and knowledge at a professional level. Once you are at the professional level, you can then decide if you want to go out independent.
I can tell you that as a health agent now I have great products. For life, so-so to crappy products currently (although I have had some good offers from forum members on par whole life products which I am currently looking at). Not that they are bad, but if I woke up tomorrow and wanted to get back in the life insurance game full-time, I would re-contract with NML immediately because I know their system and products. I would also consider NYL and Mass. I would not consider MoO.
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Originally Posted by VolAgent
Buddy, you need to learn to read, and I don't mean just scan the words, but comprehend.
NYL is not completely captive, Mass is in no shape or form captive, and I do not believe Northwestern is strictly captive either. Now if you really like MoO, go get'em. But at least make sure you understand the playing field first. And stock or not, MetLife is a good company for some agents.
Second, this forum is mainly populated by indy guys, so yes they are going to tell you that being captive is horrible. And they are right, being captive is horrible FOR THEM. Unless you have done the system, you do not know if captive or indy is better for you. However, I'll be completely honest, based on what you have shown on the forum, you are in desperate need of a good system and manager.
You can sell "around" NML, but all NML business that you write is non-brokerable and you can't take it with you if you leave. That is the one downside to NML. NYL and Mass I believe both allow switchover to brokerage contract and you can keep your existing book of business. I know for sure that Mass does as when I left there I kept my life clients.
Last edited by Dave020 : 06-12-2009 at 02:23 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
I think, ultimately, term is sold on price alone - much like Medicare supplements. They only time you really need service is at passing.
If you were shopping for term for yourself and both companies were offering the exact same life insurance policy and one was $15 dollars less a month - which would you go for? Selling insurance on service can work for some products, but maybe not term.
Bottom line - MoO is a little more expensive than some others like ING and West Coast Life.
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A.M. Hyers
Hyers and Associates, Inc.
Agreed. Term is a very price-sensitive product. Servicing would really depend on whether the insured has any intentions of converting some or all of the death benefit.
No single company can be the most competitive in all areas. MoO seems better known for solid health insurance (including LTC & Med Supp), NWM for par life. Neither is famous for great UL, although they might do as well or better than others long-term, because they have always tried to work very hard on long-term products. JMO
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I thought this WAS a real job!
I think, ultimately, term is sold on price alone - much like Medicare supplements. They only time you really need service is at passing.
[COLOR=Red]If you were shopping for term for yourself and both companies were offering the exact same life insurance policy and one was $15 dollars less a month - which would you go for? [/COLOR]Selling insurance on service can work for some products, but maybe not term.
Bottom line - MoO is a little more expensive than some others like ING and West Coast Life.
Depends on the conversion options.....some carriers have horrible conversion options, some have very good ones. If my conversion option is limited to 10 years on a 30-year policy with the less expensive company, but I got the full 30 years on the more expensive company, I'd go for the more expensive one. Apples to apples though, most people (now at least) will look at the financial strength of the carrier and potential difficulty in underwriting the case. Some carriers are more aggressive than others.
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