How will the proposed national health plans in the works affect the insurance industry as a whole and then health insurance itself?
To me they already have 2 big plans already. Medicare and Medicade. Hard to believe the nation thinks we need one more. In the midst of all the deregulation(cable,electricity,phone...) it seems odd that we would regulate or basically take over health insurance all together.
Seems that is it coming no matter what at this point. Obama has his plan on his site and it calls for massive job relocation for the insurance industry and such.
Is this just a bad thing to get into at this point? I know the Fed. can't put anything together that will work but if they mandate it broken or not that is what folks will have. I remeber reading something about not even being able to get better coverage if wanted or something along that line, saying that all need to participate to keep the cost down.
Anyway I would like to hear some thoughts on this. Makes me nervous to say the least. I of course had been thinking about this when looking at this industry but thought it was just too big at this point to just go away. Now I'm not to sure, most likly from just a lack of knowledge on this but that is what I'm here for.
Socialized medicine has been a topic of discussion for over 100 years. Folks who voted for Teddy Roosevelt are probably very disappointed they never received what he promised.
When Medicare became law, as part of LBJ's Great Society carriers thought they would be out of business.
What I tell people to listen for when politicians talk, is how they plan to control rising medical costs? Not the cost of the insurance, but the cost of care. If that continues to grow at 8-10% a year, how will they continue to fund a National Health Care Plan? Will they raise taxes every year to cover costs? None of the politicians explain how they will force doctors and hospitals to accept what ever money the government sees fit to pay. This type of program is what the "People" think they want. They want a system that completely breaks with the insurance companies and puts care in the hands of the government (Expand Medicare). Most of these same people have no idea what Medicare is and how it covers. They have no idea how Medicare functions. We as agents have every idea how Medicare functions. Look what happens when we call Medicare. Do you think people would have this great trust in a government plan if they just picked up the phone and called Medicare?
Obama's plan would create a "Health Insurance Trust" of around 5-7 insurance companies that people could pick from. He claims that this will induce competition between the companies. Reducing the number of companies that sell health insurance will not increase competition. It just puts more power in the remaining big 7. His plan also states that the government will specify what plans can be offered and what the plans have to cover. By regulating the coverage you will basically set the cost of the plans. Where would they compete? The insurance companies would basically offer the same plans and compete by advertising. Who ever has the biggest marketing budget, wins. Obama also calls for "Guarenntee Issue", but does not require everyone to buy insurance. Ummm, if you can get coverage the same or next day after your diagnosed, how many people will not purchase health insurance until they are sick? What will this do to the cost of the plan when 50-75% of the people that actually buy coverage, are sick? I think our best weapon against this, is education. WE as agents need to spread the word and make people ask these same questions of their representatives.
We need to make them go to Canada Online and look at the waiting lists. My ACL replacement would have gone something like this. Hurt knee, went to doctor. He calls for a MRI. I wait three months (in Toronto) to get the test. Go to specialist (1-2 week wait) and he schedules surgery. Wait time for surgery is 3 months. In other words, does anyone body believe that most American's would be perfectly happy to walk around for 7 months with a blown ACL? They really have no clue. Education is the key.
For health insurance agents to get all riled up over what might or might not happen is a waste of mental energy. It's also detrimental to your business if part of your mindset is "if I really kick this out I'll probably be wasting my time."
We all have our opinions here. That plus $1.50 gets us a cup of coffee.
Mass. announced years ago that they were going to mandatory coverage. A lot of people said "...will never happen." Well, it happened.
Then we have New Hampshire - used to be GI that went back to fully underwritten 3 years ago.
Are we going to get national healthcare? Are we going to get mandatory GI healthcare?
The answer is......[COLOR=red]no one knows.[/COLOR]
In the mean time, if you're selling individual health and YOU think we're going to get it then choose another career.
For me, I hope nothing happens that will harm my career. That would be the "NO DUH" statement.
If it happens it happens. I don't stop driving because one day I might get killed in an accident. Risks are taken every day.
Years back when everyone in MD drove to Ocean City they had to drive through Salisbury. Nice small town with a lot of stores set up specially to cater to the traffic.
Just a few years ago MD built a by-pass - now all traffic can avoid Salisbury. Many businesses went under and that's the risk you take.
If it happens? Well....ok. So I'd probably switch to the senior market.
But my answer now to health agents who have their mind set that they're likely wasting their time in this field due to the liklihood of national healhcare is "then go run another business."
------------------------------------ Health Insurance Agents: Training, Support, Discounts, E&O for $440 www.ihiaa.com
Most of these same people have no idea what Medicare is and how it covers. They have no idea how Medicare functions. We as agents have every idea how Medicare functions. Look what happens when we call Medicare. Do you think people would have this great trust in a government plan if they just picked up the phone and called Medicare?
I find the opposite. Most people would kill for a chance to get in on a deal like medicare at a lower age. They are already used to hassleing bigtime with their current carrier already, paying through the nose and often being denied, or they have no coverage at all. The cost to the country would be astronomical so I am only getting at the issue of whether the average joe would be willing to chuck what he has now in favor of paying 96 a month for part B and then the cost of a med supp on top of it. The answer is a resounding yes for a tidal wave of people. Not saying that I support a national system like that because I don;t. Just saying that that argument will not fly.
You are right though that all of the second tier solutions such as limiting the number of carriers and regulating what they must cover and at what cost and guaranteed issue etc are on the horizon and they are fatal to independent insurance agent, as discussed and disagreed with many times here. It's coming.
Winter
------------------------------------ Spending Our Way to Prosperity
The hell you will. We're full up with agents. On the other hand, when SAI quits to work at Hooters we may have an opening.
Originally Posted by healthagent
But my answer now to health agents who have their mind set that they're likely wasting their time in this field due to the liklihood of national healhcare is "then go run another business."
I would go further and suggest that any agent that advocates national healthcare get the hell out of this industry.
Rick
------------------------------------ ILIAA
Training, Community, Support, and Success Independent Life Insurance Agents Assn rick@iliaa.org
The hell you will. We're full up with agents. On the other hand, when SAI quits to work at Hooters we may have an opening.
I would go further and suggest that any agent that advocates national healthcare get the hell out of this industry.
Rick
The post you are responding to referred to agents who believe that it is coming which does not necessarily mean that they advocate it. Not the same by any means. Some realize what is coming but dread it.
T
I would go further and suggest that any agent that advocates national healthcare get the hell out of this industry.
Rick
I would advocate that agents who support the current system make plans for getting out of this industry... because I believe they will be legislated out.
This whole debate is shaping up like the one held in 1962 about Medicare. Read your history... because it is going to repeat itself... and all the agents allied with all the angels in heaven wishing that it were not so... won't change the result.
The post you are responding to referred to agents who believe that it is coming which does not necessarily mean that they advocate it. Not the same by any means. Some realize what is coming but dread it.
Winter
Agreed. There is a big difference between believing something will happen and hoping that it does. There are agents who want universal healthcare and even promote this idea to their few clients.
Expecting something to happen is of course different that advocating it will happen. I (unfortunately) believe we will elect someone I can't stomach as president. I don't have to hope it will happen and in fact, I will do what I can to see that it doesn't.
BTW:
This message is hidden because al3 is on your ignore list.
They can tell america all they want right now. The fact is we are collapsing as a nation and adding new programs will just make it that much quicker. Right now If I were president I'd be thinking of how to keep americans employed and in their homes.
Obama has an out though to campain promises this way. He simply will have to spend his time and efforts to undo what has been done the last eight years. The price tag is simply too high right now for much to change. Taxing all the rich people in the country isn't going to reverse the financial damage for many years. They will tax the rich, they will reinstate the estate tax (slightly modified) and that's about it. They simply don't have the money to change things now.
And they knew it coming in. It easy to promise things you know you can't deliver simply because you really can't fire a president for that stuff.
Basically whomever wins the office is going to be spending most of their time pulling our financial butt out of the fire.
Taxing all the rich people in the country isn't going to reverse the financial damage for many years. They will tax the rich, they will reinstate the estate tax (slightly modified) and that's about it. They simply don't have the money to change things now.
Some of the worst pandering ever.
During the debates, both Democratic candidates talked about paying for new programs by additional taxes on people making $250,000 per year and above.
What percentage of the population do you think that is? Try 3%.
How much revenue can you raise?
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[COLOR=blue]Don't steal - the government hates competition.[/COLOR]
The cost to the country would be astronomical so I am only getting at the issue of whether the average joe would be willing to chuck what he has now in favor of paying 96 a month for part B and then the cost of a med supp on top of it. The answer is a resounding yes for a tidal wave of people. N
Winter
Um, what Med Sup?. You are assuming there will be med sups's around. OK, lets say there are, so a family of four each has to pay $96/m per person for their Part B. Now they have to pay $100/m each for the med sup.. Now they all get a PDP @$20/m. Great coverage yes, but $864/m. I don't think thats what the general public is thinking the cost is going to be.
Um, what Med Sup?. You are assuming there will be med sups's around. OK, lets say there are, so a family of four each has to pay $96/m per person for their Part B. Now they have to pay $100/m each for the med sup.. Now they all get a PDP @$20/m. Great coverage yes, but $864/m. I don't think thats what the general public is thinking the cost is going to be.
I didnt say everyone. I said tidal waves of people which is true. I am in a guaranteed issue state. a 60 year old male could get a comprehensive plan from the two dominant carriers for about 1000 a month or more if a smoker. If they were a little older and on medicare it would be the 96 for part b plus a med supp for 151 and they would have a nice plan. Rates are higher in my state because guaranteed issue is a disaster even though it will be nationwide soon. Nevertheless folks in many categories are paying a lot in all states, particularly if they have health issues (medicare does not rate up or deny and some supps dont either with the exception of renal failure) and a medicare-like plan would be a dream come true for them.
My oriiginal point was only that you are not going to fend off changes by saying to folks "you don't want a plan like medicare do you" because there are many that do. The fact that some dont is not disputed.
I didnt say everyone. I said tidal waves of people which is true. I am in a guaranteed issue state. a 60 year old male could get a comprehensive plan from the two dominant carriers for about 1000 a month or more if a smoker. If they were a little older and on medicare it would be the 96 for part b plus a med supp for 151 and they would have a nice plan. Rates are higher in my state because guaranteed issue is a disaster even though it will be nationwide soon. Nevertheless folks in many categories are paying a lot in all states, particularly if they have health issues (medicare does not rate up or deny and some supps dont either with the exception of renal failure) and a medicare-like plan would be a dream come true for them.
My oriiginal point was only that you are not going to fend off changes by saying to folks "you don't want a plan like medicare do you" because there are many that do. The fact that some dont is not disputed.
Winter
Well a medicare plan for all of us wouldn't work with the reduction in rebursements to Doctor's next month. I can see that if everyone was offered a medicare like plan that reimbursements would either have to increased or an exodus by physicians to other careers.
Med advantage plans for everyone would certainly put our country down the poop chute with the cost.
Well a medicare plan for all of us wouldn't work with the reduction in rebursements to Doctor's next month. I can see that if everyone was offered a medicare like plan that reimbursements would either have to increased or an exodus by physicians to other careers.
So what? Let 'em go. There's no shortage of physicians.
A lot of 'em are moaning because their income is down from $600,000 per year, and now they have to slum it on $400,000.
There's an awful lot of people that would be happy to do it for $300,000...
Medicare and to a lesser extent, Medicaid, put a strain on the PCP side. Most new docs bypass primary care in favor of specialty's. Existing PCP's are limiting the number of Medicare/Medicaid patients they see and some are converting to cash only to avoid having any M/M patients.
Any form of nationalized health care will only compound this problem.
In spite of what ignorant voters and lying politicians say, the system cannot support "free" health insurance.
"I don't think thats what the general public is thinking the cost is going to be."
The general public thinks there is going to be no cost. It's free healthcare after all, what do you mean I have to still pay for it?
Not enough people realize it's just a game of musical chairs with premiums. All these programs address is where the premium (or tax) money goes before it goes onto medical providers.
They aren't addressing cost or cause of health care because that would mean that the average citizen would actually have to do something physical to improve their health.
The government on BOTH sides has abandoned what they should be doing to improve the health of Americans. They just want to control the cash flow and get theirs.
What the government should have been doing all along is building more parks, encouraging more physical activity and creating incentives for an active lifestyle.
Instead they take 20 years to build a kids ballfield, they abandoned the presidents council on physical fitness (remember those tests back in the 60's?) shortchange parks and hiking trails and so on. The things the government were supposed to be doing they've been cutting for decades...
America is the only country where overconsumption is killing the population. Our cost of healthcare is directly tied to this situation. If the government truly wanted to improve healthcare in America, they simply wouldn't have dropped the ball on the things they could do and should have been doing all this time.
They could have been doing little things to help improve lifestyles... hell the canadians give their citizens a tax break if their kids play youth sports.... little things that help create a healthy lifestyle.
Aw now I'm just pissed at how stupid Americans are to believe the government can do it better. They can't live up to their responsibilities now....
Well a medicare plan for all of us wouldn't work with the reduction in rebursements to Doctor's next month.
A democratically controlled executive and legislative branch, which is probably coming, will restore those cuts to the physicans. The money will come from the excess reimbursements to MAPD plans so you can count on major hits to MA plans. The zero premium plans will have to move up to a premium and the plans that already have a premium will increase, thus narrowing the gap between the advantages of an MA over a supp.
If McCain gets elected that will not happen. I am voting for McCain but would not bet a dime on him. I think it is a democratic year, barring an obama scandal, as discussed previously.
I also agree with the other post that said if the physicians want to get out of medicare, good riddance. We need to be training more primary care docs with experience in geriatrics anyway and there are lots of opportunities as we go forward to waive medical education costs and other expenses for physicians who agree to serve that population. Unlimited number of ideas and opportunities should arise.
It takes about $300,000 and most of a person's life between 22 and 30 to become a doctor. Do you think they'll make more with government funded health care?
How many of us are happy with "only" $130,000? And how many of us want to work 60+ hours a week to earn that?
$130,000 income isn't even enough to think about qualifying for a loan to buy a nice home in Southern California. Hell, you can earn that by selling health insurance with hardly any education. Who would have thought that what we do likely earns more than our own doctor?
Do you think they'll make more with government funded health care?
It is actually an interesting question. Arguably, if those low physician salaries are valid is does make a case for becoming a government funded physician for some anway. You make almost that much and have benefits and a retirement plan etc and dont have to hustle and borrow to build a practice. Actually, I have seen and I suppose it is a trend, a growth in the number of physicians who are employees. It may not be government, more often, they are hired by the explosive number of hospital affiliated practice groups that participate in the physicians training and then hire them as employees. So, many are headed in that direction already. I don't different it would be for them if they went to work for the VA or some yet-to-be invented government program. They are not on the solo or group practice mega-bucks track anyway. They are health care essentially health workers just as in the National Health System in Britain. The more expensive medical education comes and the more expensive it is to start your own practice the more young docs will continue to gravitate toward this type of employement, which usually involves some type of load pay-off assistance as well.
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