It is the most entertaining thing I read each day. I can't wait when I get up in the morning and sit down at my computer with a cup of coffee and read "the latest in this continuing saga".
Frank, all I can say is, you need a bit more excitement in your life if this gets you moving in the AM.
Have you considered watching Richard Simmons dance with the oldies, perhaps?
I know it's just not the same since Dave Garraway & J. Fred Muggs passed on, but let's try & deal with it, OK?
Speaking of entertainment...one of the funniest shows (other than Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm) around is old reruns of "The Man Show" (with Jimmy Kimmel).
It's on late at night, and my wife cringes when it comes on. Ah...that "Wheel of Destiny."
Speaking of entertainment...one of the funniest shows (other than Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm) around is old reruns of "The Man Show" (with Jimmy Kimmel).
It's on late at night, and my wife cringes when it comes on. Ah...that "Wheel of Destiny."
I remember my wife storming out of the room when they got to "girls jumping on trampolines."
------------------------------------ Health Insurance Agents: Training, Support, Discounts, E&O for $440 www.ihiaa.com
Because of this thread, I no longer have to watch the young and the restless.
Thanks Miracle Insurance!
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"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." Ronald Reagan
I'm still trying to understand how something like this can work without the insurer risking loss (financial and licensure) and the agent risking discplinary action or suspension of license.
As I understand it, a third party corporation will act as premium payor and principal beneficiary on life insurance policies issued to seniors in certain areas of USA. Agents will receive a "commission" (aka kickback, aka rebate) for the sale. So I have to ask:
- how is insurable interest created between the insured and the corporation? Is there going to be some kind of loan? Is the premium considered a loan due for repayment? If so, doesn't insurable interest have to exist at the time of application, not the time of approval?? If that is the case, then how is the corporation creating the insurable interest since there is no insurable interest until such time as the policy is approved and premiums are paid? And if the premium is in fact the loan creating the supposed insurable interest, how can the insurer justify that insurable interest would be equal amongst the entire spectrum of potential insureds given the age range offered versus standard mortality indices?
Certainly the life expectancy of an 85 year old is substantially less than that of a 65 year old. Yet from what I have read, all plans in this program will offer the 50k deal with 35k back to the corporation. So, certainly it is reasonable to assume that the level of insurable interest would be higher for younger insureds and much lower for the older ones.
Someone posted earlier a rather lengthy rebuttal concerning STOLI/SOLI plans. Yes, they exist, however the one difference is that those STOLI/SOLI plans have an existent insurable interest before the application takes place. In this case, where does the insurable interest exist prior to the approval of the policy? And if no insurable interest exists at the time of application for coverage, the beneficiary has no claim to insure the applicant.
If I can find a way to do this, I am going to purchase final expense policies on the elderly and make some profit. I am only going to do 80- 85 though. WOnder if I can get a loan for that?
I wish that we would consider that issue a values conflict and it will never be resolved, regardless of the outcome - when there are conflicts in value, the only solution is to listen to each other and try to understand, not change a person's values. Even if this product is approved and put on the market, there will be some who feels that it is wrong and chose not to sell it - that's okay. For those who feel that it is a good product and will help to ease the mind of many seniors and want to sell it - that's okay also. We should respect each agent's decision or feelings on this - that simple. You can't bully someone in believing what you believe - the word is respecting another persons views. that is how you maintain an open line of communication - i was looking for dialogue on this subject - not bashing from a few older (seasoned is not appropriate) agents who think they know it all and does not understand the concept of change. Things are not always the way it was back when. You seasoned agents may have the most knowledge of all the agents but you are lacking in respect for other agents just because they do not share your belief. I would expect seasoned agents to set the example to show new members how to work through times like this without bullying with unkind words and hurtful comments by people who are just sharing what they think. and on the tip of salesperson versus insurance professional, how many of you work for free or for a fee - so don't bash agents who may make more money than you do with a new product - i am sure the money in this business has been good enough for you to be in it for as long as you have - whether you make 10,000 year or 100,000 you still are selling a product and getting paid.
Dallas - You missed the point.
You are discussing whether the product is morale or immorale, which is a values question. Most of the agents are discussing whether it is legal or a scam.
Case in point, the concept of a $50K policy paying the family $15K is a morale issue. If you truly get it for free, have fun selling it. I don't think anyone (some misplaced comments aside) is really even talking about this part, isolated solely by itself.
The part about this needing to have a LOT of small print to get through any type of smell test is what is being discussed. This is a perfectly legitimate conversation to have. It's easy to get caught up in the moment, think something is a great deal. It's another thing to get some feedback from people who have been through it before, and wonder how this can work. Apparently it's not a new scheme. Beyond learning it's loaded with fleas, I think a lot of people are waiting for details. Once some solid details are released (not the 'I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you' type details), people will make up their minds. People posting false facts, or off hand dismissing serious concerns, are providing the fodder in this thread.
In the meantime, you've got to enjoy the humor of some flippant comments. When there are true facts to ponder, the flippant comments will slow down, for a very short time.
you did good.,...but still not what we are looking for...can you also find out the wording and the law it pretains to that this loophole plan is being built around.....until then.....
I appreciate your snarky comment... it was great
I guess it does look like I know "too much" because I do research things... but my goodness, how many times does someone have to post "What does DWLR mean?" I mean it has a statute next to it... I just googled it. Now we do not have to read that question again for the next 60 pages.
For that, you feel the need to attack me negatively... I am just accustomed to trying my best to find an answer that would help everyone... that comes from being a woman, which is probably the biggest pitfall I have with some on this board anyways
Last edited by angwagner1974 : 05-04-2007 at 04:40 AM.
Reason: wording
I guess it does look like I know "too much" because I do research things... but my goodness, how many times does someone have to post "What does DWLR mean?" I mean it has a statute next to it... I just googled it. Now we do not have to read that question again for the next 60 pages.
For that, you feel the need to attack me negatively... I am just accustomed to trying my best to find an answer that would help everyone... that comes from being a woman, which is probably the biggest pitfall I have with some on this board anyways
I have not attack you negatively.....and I know what DWLR means...I want to read the insurance law that supports this 0 perm. life plan.....
What is an ‘insurable interest’? A person has an "insurable interest" in something when loss or damage to it would cause that person to suffer a financial loss or certain other kinds of losses. For example, if the house you own is damaged by fire, the value of your house has been reduced, and whether you pay to have the house rebuilt or sell it at a reduced price, you have suffered a financial loss resulting from the fire. By contrast, if your neighbor's house, which you do not own, is damaged by fire, you may feel sympathy for your neighbor and you may be emotionally upset, but you have not suffered a financial loss from the fire. You have an insurable interest in your own house, but in this example you do not have an insurable interest in your neighbor's house.
A basic requirement for all types of insurance is the person who buys a policy must have an insurable interest in the subject of the insurance. You have an insurable interest in any property you own or which is in your possession.
For purposes of life insurance, everyone is considered to have an insurable interest in their own lives as well as the lives of their spouses and dependents. For property and casualty insurance, the insurable interest must exist both at the time the insurance is purchased and at the time a loss occurs. For life insurance, the insurable interest only needs to exist at the time the policy is purchased.
This is an ethical slime pit. It bastardizes the very concept of life insurance. The bottom line is there will always be financial entities willing to bend and twist the rules to make a buck. Thankfully for them there are also slimeball agents willing to do the same.
- i was looking for dialogue on this subject - not bashing from a few older (seasoned is not appropriate) agents who think they know it all and does not understand the concept of change.
I think the "concept of change" is very understood here. Quite clearly, in fact.
You're lucky that this is a "Forum" where you can get your self-serving views read.
Facts are facts. Oh...that's right. There are no facts.
WARNING: Do not give your license or any personal information to dallas. If the product ends up being the "real deal,"...then do your homework and you can throw dallas into the ring with some other experienced options.
I received an email from Dallas yesterday evening suggesting I sign up to sell the "product" along with an email link to do so. Obviously, the email told me who to list as my upline.
Whether this product is legit or not, I resent this email which is SPAM, plain and simple.
I did not expect anyone to use the information on this forum to directly solicit anyone.
While it's okay to post such information, it is not okay to SPAM forum members.
If this product does turn out to be viable, I can tell you who will not have my business.
You believe that I am with Miracle Insurance, right? Well, I can tell you again that I am not but even so I do not think it will change your opinion of who I am and what I am... As for insuranble interest, I have no idea what their stance is going to be on that... I have not even acted like I knew anything about it. I do not.
MY DWLR was not directed at you but your dig at me was (something about manning the tree fort) and I do not understand what I could have possibly done that you would find me answering posts with the experience I have would afford a dig at all. We have a large base of companies and products... all these companies are different and some of them do things that people are saying that Miracle would have to do but can't be done. That does not mean that I am an INSIDER.
Should I just jump on the bandwagon and just analyze how things absolutely cannot be done when I do not have all the facts? Do that for a bunch of threads in a row and then talk about how this thread should be closed because of the sheer size and it is not getting anywhere... talk about dead space.
I am not for or against this product... not enough facts for me and I have not once posted anything about Miracle that I did not clarify as strictly what it was... something direct from Miracle or from someone that was what I consider to be a honest person with a direct connection. Even then I have listed that it is all a guess... I do not know how it is going to work but I am hoping that it does work... we have a lot of poor country people out here that could really use that insurance.
I found this forum and I thought it was great because I could find answers from a group of people that would be putting all their information together to try and come up with something but when you post facts about insurance companies or information you hear about the product, people jump all over you. Do you have to say "Ali is a criminal" or "this product is going to make a millionaire"? Isn't there any middle ground?
I get the feeling the only way you would "like" me period if I posted a picture of a fish and just shut up
When someone dies the beneficiary needs the money. It's either a family member or a key man situation where a company has to now replace a partner. In any case, when the person dies the beneficiary is potentially finacially harmed and needs the money.
In this case it's just a business opportunity for some investor. They have no interest except to me more profit then they're already making.
If you want to participate in that and fool youself into thinking you're helping people that's fine. The people putting this together are certainly counting on agents devoid of ethics to go market this.
The fact that the DOI may approve it is neither here nor there. There are many DOI authorized products available that I would never sell.
Last edited by healthagent : 05-04-2007 at 10:47 AM.
A person has an "insurable interest" in something when loss or damage to it would cause that person to suffer a financial loss or certain other kinds of losses. For example, if the house you own is damaged by fire, the value of your house has been reduced, and whether you pay to have the house rebuilt or sell it at a reduced price, you have suffered a financial loss resulting from the fire. By contrast, if your neighbor's house, which you do not own, is damaged by fire, you may feel sympathy for your neighbor and you may be emotionally upset, but you have not suffered a financial loss from the fire. You have an insurable interest in your own house, but in this example you do not have an insurable interest in your neighbor's house. 
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