I would have to say that HMO's are the backbone of the MA industry. They have been around for 15+ years, but only in major metros. PPO's are slowly taking over now that their premiums and benefits are more inline with HMO's, but with out of network benefits and usually larger networks.
PFFS plans on paper looked like a great deal. However, applied they were a disaster. Executed properly, they could have been a success, but as we all know, that did not happen.
What is going to happen is that PFFS plans are basically going to become regional PPO plans. Humana already has quite a few of those in place. Their benefits compared to local plans are not all that, but when someone cannot get a local plan, that may be their only option for additional coverage.
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"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." Ronald Reagan
PFFS the backbone of the MA program? Medicare HMO was around years before PFFS was even thought of...
THe majority of the country is having problems with the PFFS plans.... I tried the dual eligable WellCare PFFS thing and it blew up in my face... people that were used to paying nothing anywhere were getting hit with bills so big they thought I was a fraud...
I cant imagine ever selling a PFFS plan ever again.
Medicare HMO was not the MA HMO.
I don't know why you had trouble with the Wellcare dual. My clients love it. I haven't been able to seel the Duet/Melody in Ky and In since May 12, but, I've done many of the Sonata plans in the interim. Especially for the LIS folks and the In medicaid with a spend down. The Melody/Duet is the only really good thing for full medicaid people and I got 3 call today from people wanting it. These calls came from referrals from my current clients. If they were so unhappy, they sure wouldn't be telling their friends to call me.
All I could do was tell them that I would call them when the Melody/Duet came back or they could call Wellcare and enroll themselves.
We have no HMO plans here. The only PPO we have is Anthem's $24/mo.
Again, we have no problems with Dr. acceptance. We will with the network requirement, thus, the PFFS will go away here. Now, I suppose I could go enroll them in this great HMO that doesn't exist here?
I haven't missed anything. You are missing my point solely because you agree with the end results of this legislation. You are willing to to throw out the whole MA structure because of a few rogues.
As as the $600 commission, I don't know of anyone that gets that. My largest contract is $420. The second largest is $270 then $225. I've done far more of the $27o and $225 than I have the $420.
I don't have a problem with the leveling of commissions. I'm sure there are many agents that would place the business with the $420 instead of the $225 without taking into consideration the suitablity for the client. To pay it as earned, I do not agree with. Unless they allow the members a continuous OEP. If you pay the agents as earned, but, still lock the member into the plan, that's nothing but a punishment to the agent. That would drive the good agents away from the MA business and all you would have left are the ones that caused the problems.
That would be a death knell for the MA program. Of course, it's that the end one seeks, it would be a good thing in their mind.
I don't know what state you are in but here in Florida there are MA plans that pay street level $800 per epp and a $10 PMPM starting month 4.
I find $800 to be high for a non-underwritten product that requires zero servicing.
I get paid "decent" commissions to find people who qualify for health insurance. How much am I paid for our GI state product? $100. No underwriting, no servicing, no nothing.
------------------------------------ Health Insurance Agents: Training, Support, Discounts, E&O for $440 www.ihiaa.com
I wouldn't be shocked if the commissions for pffs plans are no more than $15/month no advance.
I won't work for that. You can be professional all you want but you don't see the top professionals in their respected industries settling for pennies on the dollar.
This is nothing more than AARP trying to get a complete death grip on the senior market. Pun intended.
And personally I'd rather have $5,000 an app for pffs/medicare than let AARP monopolize the market.
$15 per month for pffs would not be the end of the world. Shoot thats more than I get for writing a United World med supp to a 65 yr old.
Wouldn't you rather get $15 per month renewals versus $5 per month? ALL my pffs plans have stuck on the books.
There is little reason for an MA plan to pay more commission than a med sup.
AARP pays a flat fee to brokers for the med supp. In Calif. it's about $300 new; $200 renewal. So if they level it off it will wind up being about $250 - so $20 per month.
I think that will be the benchmark for MA plans. I make a damn fine living selling IFP and Med Supps and will be very happy to earn $20-25 per month for MA plans.
It's nice to have the professional agents add their information to this thread. Thanks John, Rick, Ramiz, Mike, Hoosier and Patch.
The experienced agents see PFFS plans for what they are.
Well then, what are they? Why speak in in innuendo all the time?
Say what you mean. In my area the PFFS are the ideal. Maybe they are in your area. I don't know your area. You seem to pretend to know mine.
I would be willing to make a wager that you couldn't come to my area and sell med sups over PFFS.
I probably couldn't go to your area and sell PFFS over med sups if you have poisoned the well. Here, there are are no HMO plans. There is only one PPO. Yet, you pontificate that PFFS are the devil.
Comon over here and sell those med sups. I will personaly triple your commission on every med sup you can sell to one of my clients.
$15 per month for pffs would not be the end of the world. Shoot thats more than I get for writing a United World med supp to a 65 yr old.
Wouldn't you rather get $15 per month renewals versus $5 per month? ALL my pffs plans have stuck on the books.
Why should we take pay cuts when the ceo's and other executives will benefit from them?
We're looking at pay cuts of over 100% with complete uncertainty that we'll even have the opportunity for an advance.
It's absolutely ridiculous to offer these plans at anything below $250/app when we take all of the risk. The rules in force are there for us to take the fall when things go wrong. Absolutely zero responsibility falls to the insurance companies.
Bottom line is I have a problem with getting hosed by these incompetent buffoons in Washington and the various board rooms of these multi-billion dollar insurance companies. Most of the problems with these plans could've been solved from the beginning if they were STANDARDIZED where seniors could at least have a fighting chance to understand them which in turn would've drastically cut down on the supposed rampant abuse of the program by rogue agents.
But noooo, lets lump all of the agents selling these plans as unethical money grubbers. Yes that's the main problem with PFFS.
Pay me per month, or all as an advance, I do not care. I will keep selling. Is Washington paying too much for these plans? I cannot say, but saying Washington is paying too much on nay given subject is like calling the ocean deep.
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"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." Ronald Reagan
Regarding commission advances, why should a company pay you before they get paid regardless of the length of the "contract"?
You mean to say you never heard of commission advances or a draw in any other industry? Years ago when I sold big-ticket computer hardware and the sales cycle was six months to a year, there was no way a company could field a sales force on "as earned" or without an advance or without a base salary plus generous bonus.
You only "earn" an 12 month commission if you collect an annual payment. The company is letting you use their money before you actually earn it, it doesn't become "yours" until the client makes a premium payment. It is about the only "nice thing" companies do for agents.
It's somewhat interesting that companies expect sales people to take the risk and perhaps go a day or a week where they put in time an effort but make no money. Who in the home office does that? Do the top execs not get paid every two weeks? And do they not get paid more than almost any insurance agent in the field?
Why did companies get rid of the "career agent" platform? Maybe because the sales people were making all the money and there wasn't enough left for the HO people? Just conjecture.
I'm convinced that the insurance industry has a generally low regard for its sales staff (but not as bad as the auto industry) and if there is a way to screw the field agent in order to make more profit for the home office folks to splt, someone in the home office will come up with it. And they get away with it because most agents are too stupid to realize what is being done to them (in comparison to sales people in other industries) and because agents are not organized enough to share the kind of info that is on and in this venue.
Instead of looking at raw commissions, you need to see what either your revenue per sale is, or perhaps better, your revenue per hour. If you work 40 hours a week to write $1000 a week, that's $25 an hour. Why bother? Your average office drone in the home office is doing better than that with far less stress.
we take all of the risk. The rules in force are there for us to take the fall when things go wrong. Absolutely zero responsibility falls to the insurance companies.
EXCATLEY!!! Well said... The agent is the "whipping boy" The drug plan, PFFS was rushed to the market, and they let the agent do the dirty work of trying to explain this flawed creation to Seniors.
From what I understand these same types of problems they are having with PFFS plans (nobody truly understands their benefits) is the same reason they Standardized Medicare Supplements?
As far has commissions, if we can get $1000 dollars an enrollment good for us. Don't ever think that the insurance company is looking out for us. They are getting us for as cheap as the market will allow them to get us.
Look at how much these insurance companies spend on advertisment. If we broke it down I would venture to say that the commission on an MA is less than it costs for an insurance company to advertise and enroll one senior.
I dont get the beef with the commission for MAs? Whats the problem with high commission? Isnt that why we do this as a career... To make a good living?
As for the as earned... Im all about it...
I would take $20 per month for the life of a policy over $400 first year any day of the week.
As for PFFS, I understand that in some pockets of the country its a great plan... problem is the other 99% of counties are having problems with it.
Re: Part C &D Levelized Commissions?
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