[MedSuppPro]

Is the level commission structure proposed or is it the law for 2009 plan year?

"Commissions for sales agents and brokers would be level across all years and across all MA products (HMOs, PPOs and PFFS plans) and Prescription Drug Plans to discourage “churning,” or changing beneficiaries’ plans each year to maximize commissions."

So is it law or is it proposed? Some say they are waiting on CMS to rule. Then others claim it is going to happen for plan year 2009. Does anybody have the answer?

[GreenSky]

Originally Posted by MedSuppPro

Is the level commission structure proposed or is it the law for 2009 plan year?

"Commissions for sales agents and brokers would be level across all years and across all MA products (HMOs, PPOs and PFFS plans) and Prescription Drug Plans to discourage “churning,” or changing beneficiaries’ plans each year to maximize commissions."

So is it law or is it proposed? Some say they are waiting on CMS to rule. Then others claim it is going to happen for plan year 2009. Does anybody have the answer?

It was proposed; now it's law.

Rick

[HoosierDaddy]

I don't follow MA to close anymore, however what is the proper way for an agent to seek out MA business. How do you market yourself and the MA product?

[patch36]

Lots of rules Hoosier, and for the coming year they have made marketing even tougher. Best place to really learn will be in the upcoming certifications we all have to do for every company we sell MA's for.

[HoosierDaddy]

Originally Posted by patch36

Lots of rules Hoosier, and for the coming year they have made marketing even tougher. Best place to really learn will be in the upcoming certifications we all have to do for every company we sell MA's for.

I guess your right... I can't wait!!!

[patch36]

Metoo. I am an annuity salesman, but I really enjoy the Medicare work. I carry a lot of products so I can always offer what is best for the customer. It generally feels like good work...

But, certifying for multiple companies is lots of fun and something I really look forward to

[Frank Stastny]

Originally Posted by GreenSky

It was proposed; now it's law.

Rick

Best thing that ever happened.

Hopefully that will get rid of the "fast buck seekers" and put senior insurance back in the hands of those who know what they are doing.

[GreenSky]

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

Best thing that ever happened.

Hopefully that will get rid of the "fast buck seekers" and put senior insurance back in the hands of those who know what they are doing.

So what are you going to do now?

Rick

[patch36]

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

Best thing that ever happened.

Hopefully that will get rid of the "fast buck seekers" and put senior insurance back in the hands of those who know what they are doing.

I couldn't agree more. We had more new and fly by night agents the last 18 months than I care to remember. The crap they pulled and rules they broke and stretched, not to mention the misinformation they spread...

[jdeasy]

Originally Posted by patch36

I couldn't agree more. We had more new and fly by night agents the last 18 months than I care to remember. The crap they pulled and rules they broke and stretched, not to mention the misinformation they spread...

I agree with that, but, they should handle those agents. Not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I know many, many agents that are diligently doing their job. They are explaining options and doing what's best for the clients. There is nothing wrong with them being compensated for their work.

The MA program has been a godsend for millions of seniors. It's saved them thousands of dollars individually, but, more importantly, it's gotten needed care to many that could not get care before because they couldn't pay the 20%.

This battle is just taking shape. The seniors don't even know that the benefits they have are being taken from them. There will be a huge backlash once they realize what's happened.

There should be more oversight, there should be a standardization of the plans, there should be a weeding out of the bad agents.

[Frank Stastny]

Originally Posted by jdeasy

I agree with that, but, they should handle those agents. Not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

I know many, many agents that are diligently doing their job. They are explaining options and doing what's best for the clients. There is nothing wrong with them being compensated for their work.

The MA program has been a godsend for millions of seniors. It's saved them thousands of dollars individually, but, more importantly, it's gotten needed care to many that could not get care before because they couldn't pay the 20%.

This battle is just taking shape. The seniors don't even know that the benefits they have are being taken from them. There will be a huge backlash once they realize what's happened.

There should be more oversight, there should be a standardization of the plans, there should be a weeding out of the bad agents.

You have totally missed the point of this thread.

It isn't about the MA plans, it is about the the huge, unrealistic commissions that are being paid. We are not talking about benefits, this thread addresses commissions.

Do you honestly believe that an agent "earns" up to $600 for placing someone in an HMO, PPO, or PFFS plan? I sincerely hope not. If you really do believe that then that tells me where your priorities are.

I would guess that those huge commissions are a contributing factor in why MA plans are costing the govt around 12% more than traditional Medicare.

Put MA plans at the same level of commission as Med Supps and let's just see how many of the "I'm just concerned about the seniors" agents decide to stick around.

Hopefully this will put senior health insurance back in the hands of the professional, honest, career agents and get rid of the "fast buck" rip off artists.

[midwestbroker]

Yes, for a lot of agents there was the I can make how much money "giving away insurance?"

I think the lock in is good for this that is starves out the money hungry. Most have moved on to other things to fill in the long lock in.

Level MA commissions would not be a bad thing. It would eliminate the agent pushing one product over another, however I am not really for any more government regulation over this. Before you know it, you will have to tape all your appointments and mail them to CMS for approval.

[jdeasy]

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

You have totally missed the point of this thread.

It isn't about the MA plans, it is about the the huge, unrealistic commissions that are being paid. We are not talking about benefits, this thread addresses commissions.

Do you honestly believe that an agent "earns" up to $600 for placing someone in an HMO, PPO, or PFFS plan? I sincerely hope not. If you really do believe that then that tells me where your priorities are.

I would guess that those huge commissions are a contributing factor in why MA plans are costing the govt around 12% more than traditional Medicare.

Put MA plans at the same level of commission as Med Supps and let's just see how many of the "I'm just concerned about the seniors" agents decide to stick around.

Hopefully this will put senior health insurance back in the hands of the professional, honest, career agents and get rid of the "fast buck" rip off artists.

I haven't missed anything. You are missing my point solely because you agree with the end results of this legislation. You are willing to to throw out the whole MA structure because of a few rogues.

As as the $600 commission, I don't know of anyone that gets that. My largest contract is $420. The second largest is $270 then $225. I've done far more of the $27o and $225 than I have the $420.

I don't have a problem with the leveling of commissions. I'm sure there are many agents that would place the business with the $420 instead of the $225 without taking into consideration the suitablity for the client. To pay it as earned, I do not agree with. Unless they allow the members a continuous OEP. If you pay the agents as earned, but, still lock the member into the plan, that's nothing but a punishment to the agent. That would drive the good agents away from the MA business and all you would have left are the ones that caused the problems.

That would be a death knell for the MA program. Of course, it's that the end one seeks, it would be a good thing in their mind.

[Frank Stastny]

Originally Posted by jdeasy

I haven't missed anything. You are missing my point solely because you agree with the end results of this legislation. You are willing to to throw out the whole MA structure because of a few rogues.

As as the $600 commission, I don't know of anyone that gets that. My largest contract is $420. The second largest is $270 then $225. I've done far more of the $27o and $225 than I have the $420.

I don't have a problem with the leveling of commissions. I'm sure there are many agents that would place the business with the $420 instead of the $225 without taking into consideration the suitablity for the client. To pay it as earned, I do not agree with. Unless they allow the members a continuous OEP. If you pay the agents as earned, but, still lock the member into the plan, that's nothing but a punishment to the agent. That would drive the good agents away from the MA business and all you would have left are the ones that caused the problems.

That would be a death knell for the MA program. Of course, it's that the end one seeks, it would be a good thing in their mind.

Ask agents in California how much they get for writing an MA plan. It's a whole lot more with some companies than $420. If Rick is around I'm sure he will jump in, or not.

Apparently I missed it, please show me where it says that they are talking about getting rid of all MA plans. Are you equating level and as earned commissions with the demise of all MA plans? You can't be serious.

It's not the fact that we have MA plans that is causing the problem, it is the PFFS plans. They were crap when they first came out and they still are.

The "slime bag" agents who are causing the problems really didn't enter the scene until the announcement of the PFFS plans. That's when it all began. There is no way to get rid of them except to take away the reason they started doing it in the first place.

HMO's and PPO's have been around for a long time and are not going anywhere. They are also not causing the problems. Hopefully this will spell the demise of the PFFS plans as we know them and the rip off agents who got into the senior market to make a fast buck placing them.

Regarding commission advances, why should a company pay you before they get paid regardless of the length of the "contract"? You only "earn" an 12 month commission if you collect an annual payment. The company is letting you use their money before you actually earn it, it doesn't become "yours" until the client makes a premium payment. It is about the only "nice thing" companies do for agents.

There are a lot of agents out there who take all their commissions as earned and I haven't seen any policies eliminated because of it. I've been getting commissions as earned since I went independent 1999.

[GreenSky]

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

Ask agents in California how much they get for writing an MA plan. It's a whole lot more with some companies than $420. If Rick is around I'm sure he will jump in, or not.

Even though I hate to get into any argument with anyone, I'll make just one exception!

Street commissions in California:
Pyramid $330 (PFFS)
Health Net 500 (HMO, PFFS)
Secure Horizons 545 (HMO, PFFS)
Aetna 625 (HMO, PFFS)
Blue Shield 625 (HMO - this is for a referral to carrier)

The issue about screwing seniors for a big commission is CAUSED by lock-in. An agent can slam a senior into plan, collect the $625 and know this is fully earned after 90 days. Pay it monthly and get rid of lock-in. This limits the chance of anyone being held hostage by a plan because an agent said "sign here so you can keep your benefits."

Changing the commissions to as earned with renewals at the same level will tend to help professional agents and get rid of the ambulance chasers. I would LOVE to get a decent renewal for all my hard word. You don't see the same problem with Med Supps. There aren't a million guys running around enrolling seniors in a "better" plan.

That being said, the more rules CMS imposes the worst it is in general. If insurance carriers would police their salespeople we wouldn't have even more government control. CMS caused this problem and instead of finding a way to either make PFFS work or give some sort of incentives for docs to join PPO networks in rural areas, they have chosen to restrict our ability to help people. Typical socialist bullshit!

By the way, it's not just independent agents who are deceptive. I had two clients called by their former carrier and asked "Did you really want to cancel your insurance?" They got scared and said no. The carrier then took an application on the phone and moved them both into their worst plan. This used up their OEP choice and they were stuck for the rest of 2009. (Yes, I did resubmit with a letter from each client stating they were deceived - CMS agreed and granted an SEP).

Rick

[HoosierDaddy]

Just to mix it up a little, but I can't belive that the Government and CMS is getting a free pass with the problems with PFFS plans, and the problems they have caused seniors and headaches for agents.

Initially this PFFFS was supposed to save the Government tons of money all while providing more benefits then Medicare. They were wrong!

The independent agent carries a big load if expected to jump through all of the hoops of contracting and certify with all of the PFFS companies available in counties he works. In an attempt provide the best offer to seniors. It is hard to obtain what info on what companies will be where and what benefits they are going to provide for that year.

FMO's and the Companies themselves really are never sure of any answer they give you to any question.

As far has helping seniors choose the best plan in their county? Are you serious? There is always going to be a company that has at least one better "benefit" then the other one you recommended.

The term "benefit" is such a big and broad term. Much more than how much your co-pay is when you see your doctor.

Frank, I bet if you took every Med Sup you have ever wrote there was another company that offered at least one better benefit than the one you wrote. Even with standardized benefits!! Benefits would included (Company Rating, ease of issue, health questions asked on app, premium ect.)

You can do this with any insurance product or any company. (Especially FE) Why does'nt CMS come out and give their indorsement for the best benefit PFFS plan for each county? They keep the agent on the hook, and hold his feet to the fire of explaining this complicated fiasco to people who eat "cat food"