Obama needs a coup... The stimulus is a failure, Pakistan is a mess, we are still in Iraq and carbon tax and cap and trade are going down due to lack of Senate support. Health Care is low hanging fruit for them. They will use the potential for a future pandemic as a motivator.
While I believe they will not go full single payer immediately the effect on the agent will be the same. We will either be eliminated from the equation and commissions will be so low we become enrollers like Medicare Advantage. Gone will be the days of 20%-30% commission rates. Plans will be GI and homogenous.
On another note critical care coverage, and condition specific coverages will be more welcome in the marketplace to supplement these plans. The writing is on the wall; 2009 will be the last year of health insurance sales as we know it.
Obama and the dems need a victory and they will take one that in their minds will benefit all Americans regardless of the cost to the Treasury or the agent community.
Obama and the dems need a victory and they will take one that in their minds will benefit all Americans regardless of the cost to the Treasury or the agent community.
They definately will place the needs of the agents in last place, after IMO in this order:
1. Needs of insurance companies that send them contributions to campaign funds.
2. Needs of businesses in their districts.
3. Needs of people in their districts.
4. Needs of the public in general.
5. Needs of agents currently selling insurance.
If they don't go government ran single payer, it won't be because the public is against it, it WILL be because the companies that send them money are against it. I can absolutely see that those companies will try their best to choke both agent commissions and quality of care to make higher profits, and basically capitalize on a government welfare program for corporate interests. Not that I believe that the Republicans would do any better in this regard, just I see the whole program moving in that direction from a government standpoint. Probably won't happen regardless, it was a HUGE snafu when Clinton tried it in his first term and I don't really think the Obama people are stupid enough to repeat that mistake.
Its funny to watch all the Hannity/Fat Pillhead listeners that have no idea what that means repeat it though.
Once again, much like Al3, we see an example of hate speech. The same M.O. plays out so many times: Because you can't defeat the idea with facts and logic, you attack the presenter. Watch this video and see what I mean.
In the state of IL where a lot of the uneducated Rush listeners that just repeat his show are misinformed, a present vote indicates that while you do not agree with 100% of the legislation in question, you do not wish to see it defeated. It's like voting "sort of" rather than not making a decision at all. Its funny to watch all the Hannity/Fat Pillhead listeners that have no idea what that means repeat it though. It is a strange rule that dosen't exist in most of the country so they just run with it because people don't understand and since they don't care to explain what it means they can use it to make people ignorant of the rule think it means something bad. Bravo for your repeating of their propaganda.
What's up with the spin explanation for the rest of us here. Your definition of voting present emcompasses votes where the person is voting "sort of" but is too chickenshoot to commit and wants to leave wiggle room to weasle to another position later. Most people understand that and see it for what it is, your spin notwithstanding. What you call igorance may in fact be calling it for what it is. Of course if one gets that tingley feeling there is an incentive to see it otherwise.
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Originally Posted by Paradigm
While I believe they will not go full single payer immediately the effect on the agent will be the same. We will either be eliminated from the equation and commissions will be so low we become enrollers like Medicare Advantage. Gone will be the days of 20%-30% commission rates. Plans will be GI and homogenous.
Indeed As discussed.
GI alone is the gamechanger and any plan that includes GI regardless of the other features will be a gamechanger. There could always be a mini-gold rush for the first year or two where the commissions are negligible but there are so many people that need to be signed up that the dollars might add up. After that, it is carrier telemarketing and web sign up all the way.
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Originally Posted by Paradigm
Obama needs a coup... The stimulus is a failure, Pakistan is a mess, we are still in Iraq.
Obama has a very, very, very serious problem brewing with the Vietnamization of Afghanistan. Don't underestimate the drain this will have on his entire presidency. He is committing us deeper and deeper and the Nato troops are pulling out more and more. Meanwhile western Pakistan and Afghanistan are all just peanut-buttered together into one big lawless tribal zone. The Brits, Alexander the Great, Ghengis Khan, and the Ruskies were not able to conquer that area basically because there is no central government to conquer. Everyone likens Obama to JFK but that is not all good is it? Given that JFK got us into Vietnam.
Remember, Obama was going to save all that money from wars and fund things at home. Now he is not even talking about getting out of Iraq. Not good. Bad moon rising.
------------------------------------ Stop the madness. We are going broke.
Last edited by Winter : 05-06-2009 at 12:35 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
Once again, much like Al3, we see an example of hate speech.
Typically, if you told me to take an admitted drug addicts position on much anything else, I would tell you that I believed that flaw in his character made him unreliable for anything he was commenting on, I don't agree that it is hate speech. If I was attacking his race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else, sure its hate speech. Attacking his moral flaws is as far as I know perfectly acceptable. He's also a racist, in addition to being a drug addict. Dosen't make me right, or him wrong on everything, but it does make his positions pretty unreliable.
Typically, if you told me to take an admitted drug addicts position on much anything else, I would tell you that I believed that flaw in his character made him unreliable for anything he was commenting on, I don't agree that it is hate speech. If I was attacking his race, gender, sexual orientation, or anything else, sure its hate speech. Attacking his moral flaws is as far as I know perfectly acceptable. He's also a racist, in addition to being a drug addict. Dosen't make me right, or him wrong on everything, but it does make his positions pretty unreliable.
My "moral flaws?" Now that is a new one. Of course you, with you whole 11 posts on this board, and living in the great state of Alabama (of 1958?) have no "moral flaws" of your own do you?
All you agents who post behind a cloak are so brave with your comments. But you woudn't dare say most of what you say face to face, because someone would simply haul off and hit you (especially someone from Alabama.)
I swear, on no other board on the internet is there a greater collection of stupid men. Did any of you go to even junior college? Judging from the post of this guy, I don't think so!
There is another post here on why 95% or so of agents fail. There are lots of comments. My take is that they are just plain stupid. They should be working in the mail room or busing tables or delivering the mail... but no... they sell insurance... or try to. Is it any wonder so many crash and burn?
Folks, you are going to get some sort of socialized insurance. Neither the agents nor their carriers have a whole lot of political capital. You are going to lose a big part of your income. Personally I think it's a good thing, but I'm sure you differ.
Moan and groan all you want, but if you can't learn to sell another product, might I suggest you join the other 95% who didn't make it in this biz? Works for me.
Yeah, lets face it, a chimp can sell health and term life. So if your IQ is about that of a chimp, get in line and take a civil service test because if you have to learn to sell a product with any complexity, it simply ain't gonna happen for most of you on this board... with or without "moral flaws."
My "moral flaws?" Now that is a new one. Of course you, with you whole 11 posts on this board, and living in the great state of Alabama (of 1958?) have no "moral flaws" of your own do you?
Al3.. you might wanna go back up and read my prior post, that wasn't directed toward you, some guy said something about me calling Rush Limbaugh a pill head being hate speech. Wasn't directed toward you, they apparently were comparing me to you, you'd have to have read the prior 3 or 4 posts to understand what that post was about. The comments I made, for clarification, were about Rush Limbaugh, not Al3. I would absolutely have made those comments to Rush Limbaugh's face though. I'm not hiding behind anything I genuinely believe what I said. I'm also not from Alabama, I just haven't figured out how to change that picture yet, nor do I really care what my avatar pic looks like so much to be too concerned with it. Again, the whole thing would have made a lot more sense if you had read back up 2 posts and saw what I was actually responding to.
If that is true, and I have no reason to doubt you, than I apologize to you personally. I am sorry.
However I stand behind what I wrote with respect to most of the folks on this board, especially those who post behind a cloak.
And I stand behind what I said about the basic intelligence level of so many (probably most) of the agents who post on this board.
Besides the lack of intelligence, I believe another reason that most fail (or will fail) is because they don't really like people... they only like themselves... and those (few) who are like themselves.
How does someone like Winter who is ideologically pure and a true believer in the gospel of El Rushbo sit with someone who is gay, or who is pro-choice, or who is anti-gun, or who is a liberal, or who supports socialized health financing, or who is a believer in civil rights, who is anti-torture, who is not petrified of immigrants or non-anglos... and help them with their financial safety-net... life, health, DI, LTC? Are you going to tell me that guys like Winter can "dial it down" and can put on an Academy Award performance? Yeah, maybe to those who live on the North Forty who have a 10th grade education, but they would crash and burn with anyone more perceptive than your basic rubber plant!
It is a good thing so many of you live in small, rural towns where everyone looks alike, talks alike, and thinks alike. If you came to California and had to work in the multi-cultural market that Rick, and Dave and I work in, you would go postal in about three days with your xenophobic belief structure and your absolute intolerance to anything outside your limited educational and cultural experience.
I don't think there is more than a handful of health agents on this board who understand how dysfunctional the current financing system is... and who have more than a casual concern for those who can't get an insurance safety net. It's all about the money. Yeah, you all make lots of noise about the so-called drop in health care (which you exemplify with Canada and the UK) but at the end of the day... it's the money. I don't think there are more than three people in this entire thread who give a damn about anyone but themselves or anything besides their own bottom line.
The reason I am conservative rather than liberal is very simple and well thought out; it is my personal belief in two things.
1) I have a right to live my life as I so choose as long as it doesnt harm others.
2) I dont give a damn whether others like how I live my life. I neither scorn their judgement nor accept their approval.
The problem with liberalism is that is it the antithesis of those two things
1) It cheapens expression by sacrificing the individual for the good of the community whether the individual has done harm or not.
2) It demands that others accept them and scorns them if they judge them.
I seek no assistance, no approval, and accept no ones judgement. I will stand my ground and fight for my individuality and woe to the man who tries to strip it from me.
Al3.. you might wanna go back up and read my prior post, that wasn't directed toward you, some guy said something about me calling Rush Limbaugh a pill head being hate speech. Wasn't directed toward you, they apparently were comparing me to you, you'd have to have read the prior 3 or 4 posts to understand what that post was about. The comments I made, for clarification, were about Rush Limbaugh, not Al3. I would absolutely have made those comments to Rush Limbaugh's face though. I'm not hiding behind anything I genuinely believe what I said. I'm also not from Alabama, I just haven't figured out how to change that picture yet, nor do I really care what my avatar pic looks like so much to be too concerned with it. Again, the whole thing would have made a lot more sense if you had read back up 2 posts and saw what I was actually responding to.
Yeah, Al3, he wasn't talking about you. I called him out for his hate speech. You liberals just keep calling people names and attacking them when you disagree with them. First he calls him "Fat Pillhead", now he calls him a racist. Just because Mr. Limbaugh doesn't like Obama doesn't mean he's a racist. I don't like Obama but I like Condi.
1) I have a right to live my life as I so choose as long as it doesnt harm others.
You say this not knowing that conservatives have a long, long, long history of denying the rights that they hold dear... to others. Conservatives believe that only certain people should be allowed to attend college. The believe that only certain people should be able to use the same bathroom that they use Conservatives believe that only they should have the right to vote. Conservatives believe that only their religion should be recognized as the "one true national" religion. Conservatives believe that, as Leona said, "taxes are for the little people."
Bottom line, conservatives have zero social conscience. They glorify selfishness but call it "enlightened self-interest." Conservative seek to conserve their power in society and not share it with those of other races, religions, or even geography.
Conservatives are just plain mean guys. Listen to your chief spokesperson, Rush Limbaugh. This is not a "nice" guy." This is a man who would gladly repeal all of the social legislation that liberals have been able to achieve and bring us back to Alabama of 1958.
Jack, you are only 37 years old. You have no idea the kind of hate, cruelty, and paranoia that right-wing conservatives demonstrated before liberals finally organized to combat their bigotry and ruthlessness.
2) I dont give a damn whether others like how I live my life. I neither scorn their judgement nor accept their approval.
Yes, I believe that. The concept of equality under law has no meaning for people like you. Nor does innocent before guilt. You would have no issues with white-only restrooms or restaurants. You would have no problem with a state religion. Your statement above tells me you would gladly revert back to a Hobbsian "state of nature." where as he said life was "nasty, brutish, and short."
One of the big differences between you and me (and liberals in general) is that the social progress that we've seen over the past 50 years has not come from conservatives... indeed you folks have done everything to thwart it... especially in the area of civil rights, and personal rights. You see the freely elected government as a threat to your power. We see it as a protection from your power.
Let me ask you this. If you were a known minority... (racially, religiously, culturally, etc.) whom would you rather decide when you get your hip operation... a conservative banker or a liberal bureaucrat? I'll give you one hint. The next time you go into your bank, take a look around and see how many minorities work there. Then go to the county hospital or the social services agency and take a look.
I seek no assistance, no approval, and accept no ones judgement. I will stand my ground and fight for my individuality and woe to the man who tries to strip it from me.
Where, and how often have I heard that before? You live in Georgia. You need to learn your own history and maybe conservatism won't sound so glamorous.
Al3 is nothing short of delusional! No one can rationalize with an un-rational man. I don't know why anyone even replies to his useless posts
There is your conservative mind at work. Anyone who dares disagree with you is "delusional" or "off their meds" or is an "un-American" or is a "socialist" etc.
I am the height of rationality. You may be as well. The difference is that I have the educational, historical, and intellectual base to debate my platform, and all you have is insults and trite ideological catechisms.
All liberals are not perfect any more than all conservatives are perfect. I recognize that the conservatives used to have a story to tell (I voted for Compassionate Conservatism twice) but these days they are not the party of ideas, but the party of 'no.'
We liberals may be wrong, but we are willing to try (and maybe fail) to make the world (country, town, county, village, street) a better place for ALL. You folks don't want it better... you want everything the same... and you get to run it.
Just because Mr. Limbaugh doesn't like Obama doesn't mean he's a racist.
He has made multiple racist comments directed toward athletes, ect, and ran that annoying "Barack the magic negro" guy on his show, among other things. At best he thinks he's making jokes directed toward black people and dosen't understand they aren't funny and they don't appreicate it, at worst it's just outright racism.
Not that any of my calling that fat racist pillhead names disproves anything I said prior. Your calling me out for not attacking ideas you didn't name that he apparently had because I lacked substance actually also lacked any substantive arugment on your "ideas" behalf. Feel free to retort with logic. In other news, in the words of a much smarter man than I, Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot.
but these days they are not the party of ideas, but the party of 'no.'
Al
There is some truth to that. However you say it like it is a bad thing. The republicans are positioning themselves as the party that said no to the Obama pig-out that will lower the standard of living in this country for this generation and the next.
We can agree that the final chapter has not been written yet. Your much-discussed buddy Arlen the Whore Specter is the canary in the mine. Enjoy the big hugs from Obama for your 15 minutes of support but see how it plays out in the next election when the public is looking for candidates who said "no" to the spending.
Even today Obama was coming across as a classic horse's necktie. He has presented a budget and plans that are well, well into the trillions and trillions but gave some examples of cost savings that were a complete joke. All of us who have been in the corporate world know that when a company is a billion in the hole they start cutting back on the business cards when they need to be shutting down complete divisions. Not to worry though, Obummer is going to put up a website for you to post your ideas. I guess because he doesnt have any, yet anyway.
Yes. That is true. The Republicans are the party that said no. Enough is enough. And dems are the party who said too much is not enough. We shall see how it works out.
The Republicans are the party that said no. Enough is enough. And dems are the party who said too much is not enough. We shall see how it works out.
The silliness of this is that the Republicans are the party that spent like drunken sailors for the last 8 years and dug this hole. I agree Obama isn't righting the ship, but the party of "no" was the party of "hell yes" the entire time they had control of all 3 houses. Noone takes them seriously on fiscal conservitism anymore, because they proved themselves to be completely full of hot air and corporate handouts. I miss the Clinton/Gingritch congress/presidency. You at least knew with them that Clinton had decent ideas, but congress kept the budget from going insane and the whole thing was pro-business yet fair for the common man. I'm hoping for Obama to stay in power, get away with about 2 years of corrective spending then possibly seeing a shift to fiscal conservatives back into congress somehow, but ATM the Republicans are so lost in the woods im sure its a pipe dream. If they could just somehow get rid of the religious right, all the neocons, and get SOME of the old base that made some sence back, the country as a whole would be better off.
I'm hoping for Obama to stay in power, get away with about 2 years of corrective spending then possibly seeing a shift to fiscal conservatives back into congress somehow, f.
What is "corrective spending"? What does that mean in this context?
Re: Pelosi Wants Government Run Plans
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