"I am surprised he was even covered at all with high PSA score."
Well your company too is concerned about retention to a certain extent. And your company too is realizing that a 20 to 30 year "then you won't need it" concept doesn't always work out that way.
When you've been around a while you'll learn that your company is just like the other companies. They will tell you one thing and do another. Your interests are secondary to their interests.
If I am not mistaken. Several years ago when I took a look at a Primerica term policy the conversion privileges, if you want to call them that, allowed it to be converted into another term. The options were an ART and a LPDT. At least that was how I interpreted it. And if they are going to switch it to an LPDT then they might as well go out and buy a whole life.
Why would anyone in their right mind want whole life??
Please give me one good reason!!
Gurus in the media like Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman preach buying term life insurance and investing the difference. This strategy makes several assumptions that may not necessarily be correct. It assumes:
1. People will save and invest the difference.
2. There will be a high rate of return (think mutual funds).
3. People will be in good health and able to work long enough to achieve this.
Are these things actually occurring in the U.S.?
1. People aren't saving and investing enough. The average balance in 401K's is $32,000 which includes employer matches. That will not make for a very comfortable retirement. http://www.lifeandhealthinsurancenew...-401k-Day.aspx
2. Most people have lost close to 40% of their investment holdings in the stockmarket of recent years.
3. Many people are not in working health long enough to complete their savings plan. Disability riders can be added to whole life insurance plans that will do this.
As you can see I believe in WL. I was a BTIDite until my study of recent years changed my mind. Personally I have a large amount of WL on my wife and I. I guess I am just niave, unsophisticated sucker. I just wish I had done it sooner. Here is another website that may prove useful:
Let me give you one reason. 54 year old lady living in Georgia, makes little money, will be buried in California, wants to leave an amount to take care of funeral needs. She bought whole life, term sure wouldn't be the route to go.
How about a farmer that will never invest in stocks or bonds, but wants to leave the kids an inheritance, so thirty five years ago he bought a decent sized whole life from a major mutual company and now, with dividends toward PUA's he's got a pretty darn big policy.
My very first license, as a fairly young man, was sponsored by A.L. Williams. I was there in the EARLY days, I bought BTITD hook, line, and sinker. There was never a need for whole life. I argued with my dad and his close friends, all of whom were long time agents. But I didn't know what I didn't know. If anyone is a William's termite, you need to wake up to a big universe of insurance of which you understand very little.
Another. I want the lowest cost coverage for the longest period of time.
Another, my health changed a decade ago. My whole life policy still charges me the absolute preferred best rate, even though my hypertensive, 35 bmi, diabetic body doesn't deserve it anymore. Will your term policy still do that for me?
Another, I took 5k out of one of my policies to help buy my daughter her ford f250 pick up truck. I didn't have to ask anybody for permission or provide 2 years tax returns and then have to explain to an "employee" what it is to run a small business. That right there, is really important.
I could keep going, but what's the point? You either see the value or you don't.
Only time tells you if you are right or wrong in your decision. Seeing how I am 20 years plus into mine and all the changes that have occurred, I like my decision.
COLI
BOLI
Split-Dollar
Executive Deferred Comp
SERP
SERP-SWAP
Buy-Sell
Key-Person
Estate Planning (including ILIT and 2nd-to-die policies)
Suze Orman has whole life coverage through her employer. It's COLI. She just does not disclose it.
She owns $20mm of it through NWM. The most expensive of them all!! But she doesn't mention it on her show because who the hell would watch her show when she's talking about evil WL insurance?!
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Originally Posted by racjac
Why would anyone in their right mind want whole life??
Please give me one good reason!!
Because people die.
Last edited by Death Cab For Tootie : 10-09-2009 at 08:38 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
The sad thing is, he never really demonstrates that she owns any WL. To condemn her because executives at her employer own WL or because her sponsor is a bank that owns tons of WL is rather weak.
It would be more condemning if he had done this on DR, simply because DR claims to refuse to do business with anyone that owns WL. However, I'm not aware Suze has ever taken such a stand.
I certainly am not a fan of Suze Orman, but this is far from damning evidence of her not following her own advice. Surely he could have found something more condemning of her. Now, if he could show one of her sponsors was owned by a large mutual that sold a lot of WL, that would be something worth talking about.
Sounds to me like the "employers" are spending to much on something they dont even need. Someone who makes six figures a yr for several years should have a nice nest egg and should invest in mutual funds or something that is going to pay them back instead of waisting it in life insurance. Sounds like a write off to me.
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RE; Dave020
Suze Orman has whole life coverage through her employer. It's COLI. She just does not disclose it.She owns $20mm of it through NWM. The most expensive of them all!! But she doesn't mention it on her show because who the hell would watch her show when she's talking about evil WL insurance?!
But She does not own it, it is a benefit through her employer and does not cost much because it is through Her employer.
Chances are She can not take it with Her if she leaves.
Last edited by racjac : 10-12-2009 at 02:44 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
Sounds to me like the "employers" are spending to much on something they dont even need. Someone who makes six figures a yr for several years should have a nice nest egg and should invest in mutual funds or something that is going to pay them back instead of waisting it in life insurance. Sounds like a write off to me.
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RE; Dave020
Suze Orman has whole life coverage through her employer. It's COLI. She just does not disclose it.She owns $20mm of it through NWM. The most expensive of them all!! But she doesn't mention it on her show because who the hell would watch her show when she's talking about evil WL insurance?!
But She does not own it, it is a benefit through her employer and does not cost much because it is through Her employer.
Chances are She can not take it with Her if she leaves.
You are really showing your ignorance here. Odds are, these are all some form of high early cash value policy. Very quickly the cash value equaled and then exceeded the total of premiums put into the policy. Also, if you can't see why whole life, particularly HECV, is of value to a high income, high net worth individual, you have no business talking about WL.
Also, if you believe any Fortune 500 executive owns or should own much in mutual funds beyond what is their employer sponsored plans, then you really have no place giving an opinion on this front.
Finally, if you really think Suze let someone buy a $20 MM policy on her life that she receives no benefit from, and has to walk away from should she leave, you truly are a moron. This policy isn't dead peasants insurance. This is some form of executive benefit. Odds are, it has already been transferred to her or will be soon. They may just be waiting for her to leave to transfer it, that way she doesn't "own" WL while she is busy bashing WL.
You are really showing your ignorance here. Odds are, these are all some form of high early cash value policy. Very quickly the cash value equaled and then exceeded the total of premiums put into the policy. Also, if you can't see why whole life, particularly HECV, is of value to a high income, high net worth individual, you have no business talking about WL.
Also, if you believe any Fortune 500 executive owns or should own much in mutual funds beyond what is their employer sponsored plans, then you really have no place giving an opinion on this front.
Finally, if you really think Suze let someone buy a $20 MM policy on her life that she receives no benefit from, and has to walk away from should she leave, you truly are a moron. This policy isn't dead peasants insurance. This is some form of executive benefit. Odds are, it has already been transferred to her or will be soon. They may just be waiting for her to leave to transfer it, that way she doesn't "own" WL while she is busy bashing WL.
.............
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Originally Posted by racjac
Sounds to me like the "employers" are spending to much on something they dont even need. Someone who makes six figures a yr for several years should have a nice nest egg and should invest in mutual funds or something that is going to pay them back instead of waisting it in life insurance. Sounds like a write off to me.
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RE; Dave020
Suze Orman has whole life coverage through her employer. It's COLI. She just does not disclose it.She owns $20mm of it through NWM. The most expensive of them all!! But she doesn't mention it on her show because who the hell would watch her show when she's talking about evil WL insurance?!
But She does not own it, it is a benefit through her employer and does not cost much because it is through Her employer.
Chances are She can not take it with Her if she leaves.
Racjac, you've lumped someone else's quote in with mine to make it look like my quote. The $20M quote is from Death Cab, not mine. Please fix it, thank you.
Last edited by Dave020 : 10-12-2009 at 04:39 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
Sounds to me like the "employers" are spending to much on something they dont even need. Someone who makes six figures a yr for several years should have a nice nest egg and should invest in mutual funds or something that is going to pay them back instead of waisting it in life insurance. Sounds like a write off to me.
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RE; Dave020
Suze Orman has whole life coverage through her employer. It's COLI. She just does not disclose it.She owns $20mm of it through NWM. The most expensive of them all!! But she doesn't mention it on her show because who the hell would watch her show when she's talking about evil WL insurance?!
But She does not own it, it is a benefit through her employer and does not cost much because it is through Her employer.
Chances are She can not take it with Her if she leaves.
RACJAC - I LOVE you guys. I have built a career on you. Do not let these guys sway you. Keep up the good fight. The more you do now the better my future looks. I am fairly new here. Are you ALW/Primerica or one of the off shots? If so I LOVE you even more. I have hired many primerica guys. By the way, great 30 year term plan you have.
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change." Charles Darwin
Suze's COLI life insurance could be part of a golden handcuff's provision. She'll get it either after X number of years or when she quits, she can take over the policy after refunding the employer back their costs out of the cash value.
Besides, she's got to leave her "life partner" with SOMETHING, right? HAHAHAHA
Sounds to me like the "employers" are spending to much on something they dont even need. Someone who makes six figures a yr for several years should have a nice nest egg and should invest in mutual funds or something that is going to pay them back instead of waisting it in life insurance. Sounds like a write off to me.
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RE; Dave020
Suze Orman has whole life coverage through her employer. It's COLI. She just does not disclose it.She owns $20mm of it through NWM. The most expensive of them all!! But she doesn't mention it on her show because who the hell would watch her show when she's talking about evil WL insurance?!
But She does not own it, it is a benefit through her employer and does not cost much because it is through Her employer.
Chances are She can not take it with Her if she leaves.
racjac, your in the business of helping families protect their loved ones, so I respect you for that.
In terms of the training you have received, and your knowledge about this business, it is all propaganda that has been handed down through the years from A.L. Williams, the founder of your company.
The facts are this, you sell a product from a company that 98.5% of your clients never benefit from! Think about that....only 1.5% of your work and labor in this business actually produces anything positive for your clients.
In my mind A.L Williams theories and your beliefs are only the "right" recommendation for your clients 1.5% of the time. You know as well as I do that only a small portion of your clients are actually "investing the difference".
Follow the brightest minds and most successful businessmen in this country and you'll find that the vast majority of them choose to own their life contracts instead of rent them. Citigroup has billions of dollars of cash-value in their COLI policies by the way.
Re: Primerica Term Conversion?
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