Just heard on the morning news that the latest Washington Post/ABC News poll has 57% of the American public now supporting a Public Option.
57% is Obama's new approval rating as well.
The train is leaving the station, folks. Fortunately, there's still time for most of you to get on board!
Atlantainsguy
Rasmussen poll certainly doesnt show those numbers, but what the hey, if he has the dem votes. Go for it.
Interesting too that Obama has now signalled that he is willing to go without the public option given the public opposition.
Such is his leadership. Probably if the polls gain another a couple points in favor of it then he will change his mind again and say there will be no reform without it.
However, if he is on a roll, I am certainly willing to watch him roll. Nothing like a good bloodbath to stimulate the discussion.
------------------------------------ Spending Our Way to Prosperity
Folks, the Democrats' plan is becoming more and more obvious:
They know they can't convince the public to buy into Single Payer. The public knows better. So, the plan is to tax and regulate the health insurers out of business. When the last insurer fails, the Dems will be able to say "see, they didn't deserve to exist in the first place."
Will it happen? Depends on what happens at the polls, so this isn't over. But remember - this isn't about health care. It's about politics.
...
------------------------------------
"Hey waitress! Bring us a bottle of tequila and call the cops!"
The train is leaving the station, folks. Fortunately, there's still time for most of you to get on board!
It's not a train, it's a ship, if you prefer the analogy, and its name is "TITANIC".
Why do you support the public option?
------------------------------------
...she appears to be a most defenceless animal; and even when those weapons are shewn and extended for her defence, they appear weak and contemptible; but their wounds however small, are decisive and fatal:—Conscious of this, she never wounds till she has generously given notice, even to her enemy, and cautioned him against the danger of treading on her.—Was I wrong, Sir, in thinking this a strong picture of the temper and conduct of America? -- Benjamin Franklin
Answer is that I trust the government more than I trust for profit insurance companies.
Is the government perfect? Absolutely not! But, I believe in the long run that the government will take better care of its citizens than the insurance industry will take care of its customers.
Of course, that's an answer nearly everyone on this Forum will probably disagree with. Of course, for all our sakes -- thank God for free speech!
I must admit, I'm a little envious of those who can look to a bunch of professional politicians and the federal bureaucracy to "take care" of them. It must take some pressure off to be willing to depend on others like that, regardless of how often they lie to you, how often they disappoint you.
I'll never be able to do it, but it's fascinating to watch.
Mac1958 -- understand where you are coming from and appreciate your skepticism.
It's a question of degree. I don't think either the government or the insurance industry gives a darn about me or anyone else. In the long run, I have a bit more faith in the government. Uncle Sam is simply the lesser of two evils.
It's like at election time. They put a bunch of rats in a box, and then ask me to pick the "prettiest one". Hell, in the end they're all still rats.
Answer is that I trust the government more than I trust for profit insurance companies.
Atlantainsguy
Can I conclude that you also believe that doctors and hospitals should be owned and run directly by the government or is your jaded view of the private sector is limited to just insurance carriers because that is where you worked?
Having worked for a hospital, in the corporate world, and also for the government, I can share your concerns. Unfortunately, the world does not divide as easily into good guys and bad guys as it does for you because I have seen the good, bad, and the ugly in all those places.
Personally, I prefer the Canadian single payer system to the public option because I dont like to play games. If that is where we are going then lets not go in circles for years and watch the government program the private sector to fail. Keep in mind that Obama wants to pay the medicare reimbursement rate to docs in the public option but the government currently subsidizes half of the part B medicare costs. Obama also assures us that the public option will not be subsidized in the background by the government. Huh? My momma may have raised a fool but not a complete idiot.
What happens when those in government power fail you? Let's look to both Dubya's presidency and Hussein's presidency. I'd argue they have both failed us. We can't do anything about it except mix it up in 4 years.
At least with private insurers we have competition. If one fails you you have others to turn to. We have a couple of hundred years of insurance industry history to prove in the end insurance companies are pretty darn hard working and honest. Sure, we have examples of swindlers and mismanaged insurers but the beauty of it is we have competition. You can bet if an insurer sees a way to make a buck by providing a new insurance program one will jump in.
I don't trust it when one group holds all the cards which would be the case with a government-run universal-health care plan. I have no doubts people like Pelosi and Reid want to control your health care making decisions because they want the power. If someone doesn't believe they want single-payor I consider that person a fool. How many YouTube clips does it take before you realize those on the far left have one goal in mind?
It seems amazing to me average citizens believe those in power are doing this for any other reason than for a power grab.
Answer is that I trust the government more than I trust for profit insurance companies.
Atlantainsguy
Can I also conclude that you also believe that doctors and hospitals should be owned and run directly by the government or is jaded view of the private sector limited to just insurance carriers because that is where you worked.
Having worked for a hospital, in the corporate world and for the government, I can share you concerns. Unfortunately, the world does not divide as easily into good guys and bad guys as it does for you because I have seen the good, bad, and the ugly in all places.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Originally Posted by bobson
At least with private insurers we have competition. If one fails you you have others to turn to..
Not in my state and many others you dont. The government forced guaranteed issue on them or otherwise abused them until they just left the state. Now we need government to create a public option so that we will have the competition that they killed.
Change you can believe in.
Last edited by Winter : 10-21-2009 at 10:14 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
Hey, Winter -- it's basically from my 40 years in the insurance industry, but I'm skeptical of any corporation putting me ahead of their bottom line. I don't have your broad experience with other sectors of the economy, but have read enough of your posts to trust your judgement and the truth of what you say. I agree with you about the Canadian single-payor system, but that's unfortunately not going to happen here. My approach to this is perhaps different that most -- I believe the life part of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happpiness" includes health care. Without quality health, there can be no meaningful life. Thanks for the thoughtful post!
Hey, Winter -- it's basically from my 40 years in the insurance industry, but I'm skeptical of any corporation putting me ahead of their bottom line. I don't have your broad experience with other sectors of the economy, but have read enough of your posts to trust your judgement and the truth of what you say. I agree with you about the Canadian single-payor system, but that's unfortunately not going to happen here. My approach to this is perhaps different that most -- I believe the life part of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happpiness" includes health care. Without quality health, there can be no meaningful life. Thanks for the thoughtful post!
Atlantainsguy
Just as a little clarification for the reader who may have dropped who into the middle of the discussion. I am not advocating the Canadian system. I am just saying that the public option will take us there over time and I am not interested in all the waste and gyrations that it takes to get there. If we try to straddle this fence where the socialists are running one side of the system and also controlling the "free market" system we will end out with a mess that is worse than what we have now and worse than what the Canadians have. I live in a state where that is already true and I am not interested in seeing the entire Republic collapse. So it is only in that limited context that I mention the Canadian system because they have a system that works somewhat and we are about to enter into one that might be a total disaster.
For the record, in case this gets confusing, I support a national risk pool that is subsidized and then tax credits/subsidies to consumers to go out on the open market. I support cross state sales and I support removing insurance carriers from anti-trust regulation. I support guaranteed issue if there is subsidy or credit to help pay for it. Yeh, I know that isnt pretty either and it is expensive and keeps me from being a conservatist purist. Fine, that is not important to me. Either propose something else that could work or take it up the kazoo with the public option. As discussed, it is clear that some convervatives want to stonewall and execute their fellow conservatives who want to go to the front lines and fight and take causalties but still preserve larger pieces of the picture. Not sure that is going to work.
And, yes I mention the word Canadian. Get used to it unless you come up with an alternative. Coming to a neighborhood near you soon.
I support cross state sales and I support removing insurance carriers from anti-trust regulation.
You do realize by removing the exemption you automatically destroy a good portion of the private industry. We have many regional insurers that get universal data to help them set insurance rates. If all insurers have to come up with their own data to set rates you will see many regional carriers fold up shop.
You do realize by removing the exemption you automatically destroy a good portion of the private industry. We have many regional insurers that get universal data to help them set insurance rates. If all insurers have to come up with their own data to set rates you will see many regional carriers fold up shop.
There is no reason why the industry needs to be protected from anti-trust regulations. If a transition period is needed then that is fine. Otherwise, those who want to fend off a federal takeover need to quit the whining and figure out where they are willing to take casualties in order to win a larger war.
I understand the "we can't, we can;t, the sky is falling routine." The repubs need to show some leadership or watch the dems get everything. The public is also not interested in hearing regional carriers whine about not being able to get universal data. That has no traction. If that would make carriers fail that probably would work out just fine for them. This is combat for gawd's sake. Lets all just chant "no" and see how that works out with the public.
I said it wasn't pretty and it isnt. I can easily envision worse and we are well on our way. Wanna shoot me too along with any other conservative who goes into the fray with detail proposals rather than bitching, then go for it. Otherwise the republicans need to get their fingers out of their collective arses and find leaders and alternative proposals right off.
Some of those regional carriers are going to go down anyway because they can't compete with others. Then they need to either go down or form alliances like every competitive industry. Get going then.
Then they need to either go down or form alliances like every competitive industry. Get going then.
Um, forming alliances is exactly what these insurance carriers do. That is what ISO is as well as AAIS. That is exactly for what the anti-trust exmption was intended.
Um, forming alliances is exactly what these insurance carriers do. That is what ISO is as well as AAIS. That is exactly for what the anti-trust exmption was intended.
Good. That experience will serve them well because things are about to get a whole lot more competitive. Let them go forth and prosper. The anti-trust exemption is about to be eliminated so hopefully they have not become dependent on any artificial protections there.
Public Option Gaining Strength
Linear Mode
