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Working for NYL, your bread and butter is whole life insurance. It's an excellent "rich man's" product. Most people are better off with term. Unless ...
Working for NYL, your bread and butter is whole life insurance. It's an excellent "rich man's" product. Most people are better off with term. Unless you've got an entre into large estate planning, non-qualified deferred comp cases the like, or a network of wealthy people, it's going to be one tough road to hoe. Not impossible, but it'll take lots and lots of time to get established. Have you written any cases yet?
You come here and list negatives about NYL, your manager, training and recruiter then turn the thread into WL discussion.
Well, I need someplace to vent. Safe to say if I started complaining in the office, I'd be black-balled in a nanosecond. The WL discussion comes from what is an acceptable use for WL? I have my opinion and I think many might agree with me to a point, but I don't think WL is acceptable as the sole vehicle for retirement funding, in most cases.
Is/has the training been top flight?
NO. I hear the continual training at the weekly meetings is good, but the initial training really lacks in product knowledge. It was as if they assumed I was in the business for five years and not new to life.
Are they teaching you how to SELL the product?
I think they've done a fair job, as good as I would ever get in this industry which has poor training to begin with.
How to Market?
Yeah, several good ideas.
Does your manager help close deals? Do they do so in an ethical manner?
He is generally unavailable to work when I available hours, so I almost feel like an independent. He did meet someone with me once. Would he sell in an ethical manner? Oh, HELL NO!!!
Understand your in a tuff spot but if their not providing top notch training then at very least hook up with a mentor in the office.
I do need to do that. How much time a person would give me as a charity I don't know.
Working for NYL, your bread and butter is whole life insurance. It's an excellent "rich man's" product. Most people are better off with term. Unless you've got an entre into large estate planning, non-qualified deferred comp cases the like, or a network of wealthy people, it's going to be one tough road to hoe. Not impossible, but it'll take lots and lots of time to get established. Have you written any cases yet?
Again, I think the average person should have about 75% to 90% of their coverage in term, for affordability reasons, but I do not advocate 100% term for people.
I don't have any real connections to people with money. I suppose I could leave my card and brochures and every doctors and attorneys office within a reasonable drive. If I'm lucky, they'll get put in a drawer with the other 100 agents that have left info for them and if I'm unlucky they'll end up in the trash. I'd bet the farm I don't get a single call.
At this point I'm not sure where we are at? I know you work for NYL, I know or percieve you are having problems with getting ink on paper. Is this about right?
I've only talked with a few people. I need to meet my first quota before I quit my full-time job, which is taking up all my time. I'm brainstorming to see what else I can do.
Here is my suggestion, ask for a mentor and give a percentage to that mentor. Hopefully one of the best agents in your area, if that is possible I'm not sure with NYL but I think if you're willing to sweeten the pot they will perform for you.
Then ask for the "5 Way" script or I can give it to you. Go check out some books by Feldmen and Bert Meisel. Then you go to 30 businesses cold calling or call 100 businesses a day and use the 5 Way to get appointments. Let the mentor take the lead and you'll get your appointment with NYL. What you need is activity, if you do that everything else should fall in line, yet you already know that. Its a matter of getting in touch with a mentor with NYL, hopefully not your manager that is where I'm not sure about NYL? I'm told by others they have a mentor system of training so go and talk to other Agents that have a good track record and invite them to go to your appointments and take the lead for a cut of commissions.
Working for NYL, your bread and butter is whole life insurance. It's an excellent "rich man's" product. Most people are better off with term. Unless you've got an entre into large estate planning, non-qualified deferred comp cases the like, or a network of wealthy people, it's going to be one tough road to hoe. Not impossible, but it'll take lots and lots of time to get established. Have you written any cases yet?
Again, I think the average person should have about 75% to 90% of their coverage in term, for affordability reasons, but I do not advocate 100% term for people.
I don't have any real connections to people with money. I suppose I could leave my card and brochures and every doctors and attorneys office within a reasonable drive. If I'm lucky, they'll get put in a drawer with the other 100 agents that have left info for them and if I'm unlucky they'll end up in the trash. I'd bet the farm I don't get a single call.
No go B2B and concentrate on small to micro small businesses. I agree to break into the HWC is next to impossible, remember the old saying, "Serve the Classes eat with the Masses, serve the Masses and eat with the Classes" or something like that. It isn't a matter of size of the policy but the quantity of the policies in the beginning.
Why is it that you don't advocate 100% term for people?
More then likely some like myself believe people have a need of insurance for life. Now the amount may vary but I think that is a proven idea today as it was yesterday. The ageing process today as it was years ago shows a clear need of insurance for life not just the producing years of ones life.
If I have no dependents, and have accumulated a decent amount of assets (not rich, just decent), why would I have a need for life insurance my entire life? What does the aging procee have to do with it?
If I have no dependents, and have accumulated a decent amount of assets (not rich, just decent), why would I have a need for life insurance my entire life? What does the aging procee have to do with it?
Well maybe not you, I really don't mean to say everyone has a need but most I believe do. The aging process I was referring to was the natural progression of life. Today people are living longer causing them to work longer into their senior years, have debt longer more then likely till they die, have desire to leave a legacy of money to someone or some group, have need to pay for final expenses so on so on.
I personally have compared the WL products to Northwestern and State Farm and found them to be lower in the quotes I ran, although SF had lower rates for children's insurance.
As I said, you may very well be competitive on permanent products, but not even close on term.
Another agent ran the preferred rates against some companies on an internet site and found NYL to be right in the middle, for one of the term products.
I don't know what internet site the agent was looking at, but a good one is www.term4sale.com. They don't sell term insurance. Just comparison software to agents. You choose the criteria (age, amount of coverage, rate classification, premium guarantee or not, A.M. Best rating, etc.). Once you input the criteria, they list the 50 cheapest plans based on that criteria. I used a 40-yr old male, Preferred Non-Tobacco (2nd best rating), 20-year plan (without the guarantee - although most of the plans you'll see offer a full 20 year guarantee), $750k of coverage, A+ Best rating or better and NYL was number 49 on the list. And as I said before, their premium is only guaranteed for 10 years.
Most of the "consumer gurus" tell you not to buy insurance without some of the bells and whistles. I remember on the other board reading threads about how some of you guys have to battle that stuff ("consumer gurus"). I talked to an agent yesterday fresh out of training that replaced 50K on the husband and 25K on the wife, giving them 100K on each...and some money back in their pocket.
First of all, there aren't many bells and whistles with term insurance. The one big one most companies use that sell permanent coverage is the convertibility benefit. Well guess what? Many of the cheap term carriers have some form of permanent coverage (WL, UL, VUL) that they allow the client to convert to. Also, most of these will allow you to convert at a later date than NYL. And if this agent saved this couple money by selling them a NYL term policy, the couple didn't talk to an independent agent.
When I say price competitive, I mean falls somewhere in what is reasonable to pay when comparing apples to apples.
So what's reasonable? And what's apples to apples? It's hard for you to compare a NYL term to most other term products, because NYL only guarantees their premium for 10 years. The other carriers guarantee it for 20 or even 30 years. In addition, you have to pay about 50% more for the NYL term. Is that reasonable?
Tell me this, you have two gas stations side by side, one has gas for $2.00 a gallon, the other is $3.00 a gallon. Which one do you fill up at?
The indy has a different mentality. Most of you guys sell exclusively on price, might cross-sell a little bit, but tend to specialize in one thing, whereas the other approach is a more comprehensive long-term relationship while working on the entire portfolio, as Melmunch said.
Let's clarify one thing. I do comprehensive financial planning. My goal as an "indy" is to provide the best benefit to my client, the most efficient way possible while still getting paid. The majority of my clients have multiple lines of business with me. I can't possibly fathom asking a client to pay $1,040 a year for a 20 year term policy that only has a guarantee of 10 years, when I can give him the same amount of coverage with a 20 year guarantee for $665 per year. That saves the client nearly $400 per year for 10 years and possibly much more the next 10 years that he could invest in his Roth IRA he has with me. That $375 invested for 20 years at a return of 8% gives the client an extra $18,500.
I've learned a lot from you guys, but most of you did the same thing I am doing. I don't know of any prominent poster here that up and started the insurance business as an independent. On the old forum, I asked if I should accept the NYL position and even STIBROKER said "yes", even though he has had fun ripping some of my posts since then. 8)
No, there aren't many that started as independent. I started captive and I started full-time from the beginning. There is nothing wrong with you working for NYL. My issue is with the statements that you are "competitive". Then you changed a little and now it's "reasonable". The reason I went independent is because I got tired of trying to sell an inferior product. Now if you only come across people who are candidates for WL, more power to you. But please note, not everyone is a candidate for WL.
Why is it that you don't advocate 100% term for people?
It may be okay in some situations. I just firmly believe that most everyone should have some permanent insurance for final expenses. This goes far beyond a funeral of around 10K, but includes legal expenses, and possible lost time at work for your survivors dealing with estate issues and grief.
Sure, you might have assets tied up in mutual funds or investments. What if the market is way down or it's not advantageous to liquidate them? Everyone should have some money for final expenses such as funeral expenses and legal expenses with your estate. In addition, some survivors could have lost time at work beyond their paid time off.
I think most everyone should have a minimum of 25K, and 50K wouldn't hurt depending on the situation and costs. If you have no heirs you're concerned about, it's not as applicable, but 90% of the population needs to have some life-long permanent coverage and should not wait to buy that stuff that Alex Trabek and Ed McMahon endorse on TV. The earlier you buy it, the cheaper it is and the dividend growth should exceed inflation and insure you'll have adequate coverage for your entire life, whereas your manageable premium today will be a small premium in 50 years.
Again, I think the average person should have about 75% to 90% of their coverage in term, for affordability reasons, but I do not advocate 100% term for people.
Then your hosed...NYL has the highest rate on term.....
Once again, isurance isn't about need, even though we tell ourselves that everyone needs it may it be term or w/l type of a leopard. Fact is no one really needs it, it isn't about need, the need only comes into play once they decide they see value of having it.
So basically the call to sell Term or W/L isn't base on need but a desire or the person seeing value in it. So just do get that straight and understand how one should proceed to understand how too succesfully sell Life Insurance. You can't sell on price nor can you sell on need, you sell on motivation and value, now I understand reading some authors that started with NYL may it be Feldmen or Miesel they seem to understand this concept all too well.
So when one goes out to sell insurance they have several options, you can go out and sell Term and Price or you can sell Value and W/L. Now I choose to sell value and not push price, to do that one has to prospect the people that will likely see value, of course to have value one needs the need and ability to pay for the Value Product. Does that mean I don't or wouldn't sell a Term policy? Of course not, even if thier is an issue about W/L if I did my job they see value on life insurance, so I fall back on term may it be entire coverage or a mix with W/L but that only creates my ability to go back later for my "Free" :wink: review I offer everyone on the book.
NYL and term, compared against other A++ companies NYL is quite competitive! At $1050 it is right in the middle and lot less the MM at $1500 so this is obvious. To sell NYL term you got to sell the value of really strong company.
Once again we see that "VALUE" is the key word.
Ps the figure above is base on me, a 46 yr old in average health for 500 grand and rates ran on term4sale.
TIAA-CREF Life Insurance Company A++ 10-Year Level Term Select (Standard Non-Tobacco) 930.00 Rg gtd
American General Life Insurance Company A++ LTG Ultra 10 (2006) Standard Non-Tobacco 975.00 Rg gtd
Pacific Life Insurance Company A++ PRO-10 - 10 Year Renewable Non-Smoker 1,070.00 Rg gtd
NYLIFE Insurance Company of Arizona A++ Term to Age 90 - 10 Year Level Term Nonsmoker 1,080.00 Rg gtd
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance A++ TT Level Term 10 Standard Plus Non-Tobacco 1,209.00 Rg gtd
Western-Southern Life Assurance Company A++ 10-Year Guaranteed Level Term Standard Nontobacco 1,405.00 Rg gtd
Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance A++ Term 10G Non-Tobacco 1,550.00 Rg gtd
Ps Ps, is there something we can learn here? It would seem to me that really strong companies charge more then weaker companies. So if you are insuring someone life you got to sell value on a really strong company. As in one that has the strongest position to be around in 40 or more years.
It may be okay in some situations. I just firmly believe that most everyone should have some permanent insurance for final expenses. This goes far beyond a funeral of around 10K, but includes legal expenses, and possible lost time at work for your survivors dealing with estate issues and grief.
Sorry, that intellectual argument doesn't wash. Sounds like you're drinking the NYL/whole life kool-aid. First off, it's not cheaper if you buy it early. It may shock you to find out that everyone pays the same amount for whole life insurance! The difference is how many years you pay the premium! (bet they didn't cover that in training) If I can comfortably pay for final expenses out of my assets (what legal expenses - if I have an Inter Vivos Trust I have no probate expense) why do I need to pay any whole life company a premium.
Best advice for younger people (less than 40)...buy as much term insurance as you can afford. Take a 20 or 30 year premium guarantee if you can. The most important thing is the DEATH BENEFIT not the type of insurance. Keep your insurance and investments SEPARATE. You won't hear it from the insurance company (not as profitable) or agents touting whole life (not as much commission).
I'll reiterate, I've delivered a fair amount of death claims. Not one beneficiary has ever asked me what kind of insurance it was....[/quote]
Nor will the Securities tout studies showing that Fund Managers over time make on average 3.2% return on average. In fact other studies show that Day Traders in general do better then highly compensated fund managers, and the discussion just goes on and on.
Nor will the Securities people tout discussions by the head of the CFP Organization when they suggest that FP'ers today work on a mind set and present plans that just isn't feasible for 95% of the American People.
But what the hell, why bring up these issues when one mindset is to invest in the latest greatest Fund of today but we all know next year or even next month the story going to change.
NYL and term, compared against other A++ companies NYL is quite competitive! At $1050 it is right in the middle and lot less the MM at $1500 so this is obvious. To sell NYL term you got to sell the value of really strong company.
Once again we see that "VALUE" is the key word.
Ps the figure above is base on me, a 46 yr old in average health for 500 grand and rates ran on term4sale.
TIAA-CREF Life Insurance Company A++ 10-Year Level Term Select (Standard Non-Tobacco) 930.00 Rg gtd
American General Life Insurance Company A++ LTG Ultra 10 (2006) Standard Non-Tobacco 975.00 Rg gtd
Pacific Life Insurance Company A++ PRO-10 - 10 Year Renewable Non-Smoker 1,070.00 Rg gtd
NYLIFE Insurance Company of Arizona A++ Term to Age 90 - 10 Year Level Term Nonsmoker 1,080.00 Rg gtd
Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance A++ TT Level Term 10 Standard Plus Non-Tobacco 1,209.00 Rg gtd
Western-Southern Life Assurance Company A++ 10-Year Guaranteed Level Term Standard Nontobacco 1,405.00 Rg gtd
Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance A++ Term 10G Non-Tobacco 1,550.00 Rg gtd
Ps Ps, is there something we can learn here? It would seem to me that really strong companies charge more then weaker companies. So if you are insuring someone life you got to sell value on a really strong company. As in one that has the strongest position to be around in 40 or more years.
Sorry James, the rate you gave is wrong. NYL is NOT competitive with term insurance. The rate is $1465 for a male age 46 at Standard Non-Tobacco rates. Remember, all the other carriers that showed up in that comparison were for 20 year guarantees.
Another issue is underwriting. It's been my experience (through the admission of some NYL reps I know) that their underwriting isn't the most friendly. When you are independent, if you really want to do a good job for your client, you will get familiar with who is strong in certain areas and not so strong in other areas. While one carrier may approve you at standard, another could very well offer preferred.
In any event, you showed some 10 year rates as well. And they didn't look that great compared to the $1,050 figure you threw out, but that isn't the correct figure for NYL. There is a NYL of Arizona that has a competitive 10 year term among A++ rated carriers. But it isn't once you add A+ rated carriers to the mix.
You can stress VALUE all you want. It CAN mean something for permanent coverage. But has no real bearing on term insurance as long as you are dealing with companies rated A+ or better.
I challenge any of you that sell NYL term insurance to show the rates of other carriers that are rated A+ or better and ask the potential client which one they'd rather pay for.
In the absence of value, cost will be the deciding factor. The only value in term insurance is what it does for the beneficiary. So why pay more than you have to? A few dollars more isn't a big deal, but to ask someone to pay 30%-50% more is just crazy. If you can get them to do it and still sleep at night, more power to you.
Silly me. I forgot everyone's situation is exactly the same. :roll:
Sounds like you're drinking the NYL/whole life kool-aid. First off, it's not cheaper if you buy it early. It may shock you to find out that everyone pays the same amount for whole life insurance! The difference is how many years you pay the premium! (bet they didn't cover that in training)
So, while anyone can come up with $10-$15 while they're young, I suppose every senior has a couple hundred a month to drop on WL in their final years? Or does our society have an epidemic of seniors that haven't done such a good job managing their finances. Me thinks the latter. The best time to plan anything financial matters for your future is ASAP, IMHO.
If I can comfortably pay for final expenses out of my assets (what legal expenses - if I have an Inter Vivos Trust I have no probate expense) why do I need to pay any whole life company a premium.
Hmm. I've heard countless people say trusts make sense for only a small percent of the population. I will say I do not know much about them and when they make sense, but only repeating the conventional wisdom I hear out there. Some say a trust is sold and never bought. Either way, your situation does not apply to everyone.
Best advice for younger people (less than 40)...buy as much term insurance as you can afford. Take a 20 or 30 year premium guarantee if you can.
Depends on your age and how long you need it and how much you hate the idea of spending it for nothing (yes, I realize protection is not "nothing" and that all coverage has value). Suppose I'm 25 and need coverage until retirement. Some have said that as expensive as the premium starts to get for 40-year term, you might as well buy WL. That is not to say that the WL is cheaper, but that you reach a point where it becomes expensive enough that given there is a 1% chance it will actually pay out, one might as well consider paying just a little more and having a permanent asset that has some additional benefits. I don't know. It's a way of thinking I've heard, but I couldn't find any sites where I could compare 40 year rates with top-rated companies.
The most important thing is the DEATH BENEFIT not the type of insurance.
Absolutely. The most important thing is that the death needs will be met, regardless of term, WL, UL, VUL, or some combination.
Keep your insurance and investments SEPARATE.
So everything should be in the stock market? There's absolutely no place for a conservative asset to be one piece of the porfolio?
You won't hear it from the insurance company (not as profitable) or agents touting whole life (not as much commission).
I imagine the policies that pay out 1% of the time bring home the bank too, from the company's point of view. As far as being commission motivated, I personally am convinced that one reason so many independents are dead-set against WL is that anyone that is going to buy it is probably going to Northwestern, Mass Mutual, NYL, Guardian, etc. if they are going to buy any substantial amount of it, rather than walk into Smallville Insurance Services. And that's to slam indies, but just the reality of many large WL purchases. It's ultimately whatever the client wants.
I'll reiterate, I've delivered a fair amount of death claims. Not one beneficiary has ever asked me what kind of insurance it was....
You must either sell some final expense or a boatload of term, given how little of it results in a death claim. I thought you sold mostly health insurance if I'm not mistaken?
Shifting gears, I know you sell using the telephone, fax, e-mail, etc. and do not meet face-to-face. Do you do the same thing with life insurance? I imagine the percentages (interested prospects) have to be lower than health insurance aren't they?
Nor will the Securities tout studies showing that Fund Managers over time make on average 3.2% return on average. In fact other studies show that Day Traders in general do better then highly compensated fund managers, and the discussion just goes on and on.
Boy is that a bunch of garbage. All I ask is when you give a statement like that, you back it up with proof. Let's see the study. I've known several "day traders" and the one common thread, they all lost money. Many of my clients have experienced much greater returns than the "average" you stated. All while using those nasty fund managers.
There is a study out there that was done by Dalbar that speaks to the returns by the average investor being around 3.50%. But the study was about investor behavior and market timing. And it is their behavior that caused their poor returns, not the fund managers. Here's a link.
My job as an advisor is not only to help with the planning process, but also to manage investor behavior. I have to remind the client of the goals from time to time and re-educate them on how the markets will move. And that when the market is down, is not the time to sell. Especially if you're still in the accumulation years. The clients of mine that listened to my advice in the 2000-2002 bear market have been rewarded quite nicely. The one's who didn't, have still done ok, but not near as good as the clients who did.
But what the hell, why bring up these issues when one mindset is to invest in the latest greatest Fund of today but we all know next year or even next month the story going to change.
I don't know of any true advisors who recommend the "latest greatest fund". Most will develop a well balanced portfolio consisting of several asset classes.
Where are you guys getting your rates from? I couldn't find any site today that gave any 40-year term quotes, except for one that will have an agent contact me. How are you all getting the rates from the large captive companies?
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