JD,
This is strictly an opinion, but I would think that ROP is a contractural obligation that would have to be honored. I believe I would not jump ship too fast until I found out for sure.
Once the regulators have decided what disposition is to be made of Shenandoah, I am sure you can probably get a legal answer to this question.
disposition...The act or means of getting rid of something....
I've read the company has anywhere from 230,000 to 280,000 policies. That doesn't seem like a whole lot. I imagine those figures will drop quite a bit over the next few weeks. In today's economy...with what's left of the company...this doesn't look to have a happy ending. Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but a majority of my business with them is Golden Promise. Those 75 year-olds can't live forever...maybe that is part of the reason the buyer backed out. Too big a risk.
If I have 100 active policies with them and they have 250,000...I've got 1 out of every 2,500 policies with them?
I've written several med-supps with them. Looks like they've got close to 30,000 written since they starting taking med-supps.
Here's the math on it. It's a $100,000 15 year term with ROP. I pay $44.63/mo. for it. I said I had it for 5 years. I've actually had it 4 1/2 yrs or 54 months. The It's at the super preferred rate. The ROP part of it is $23/mo. I've paid a little over $1200 for the ROP so far. I made a little over $400 commission on it. I'm negative $800 if I dropped it now.
I still would qualify for super preferred with any company, yet, I'm 4 1/2 years older. But, I would get a new commission if i went with someone else. Contestability is not an issue as, by Ky law, a new contestability cannot be imposed on a replacement.
I'm leaning to replace it. I was wondering if someone could give me a good reason to not do so.
You have 10.5 yrs of insurance left.... any re-entry will be more costly, and who knows if you will be insurable at the end of this policy.
For 15.85 more per month (60.48 per mo) you can get a 20 yr term ROP... with Amer Gen'l, buying you another 9.5 yrs of guaranteed coverage. If you don't like AG, then Pru is 8 bucks per mo more... Sounds like a cheap price to pay for getting nearly 10yrs of guaranteed premium at the same rate, and you are going to recoup all the prems back at the end of 20... appx 14.4K...
I would bail and get a new deal... pocket the 720 on the front end, so there is nearly your 800 back already that you have sunk into the other ROP plan. Would you like me to set-up the paramed exam...?
BTW, pretty sweet of Ky law that policy replacement doesn't affect contestability... didn't know that. I wonder how many other states have that provision...? And here I thought Ky was 40yrs behind times.
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"A successful man is one who can lay a firm foundation with the bricks others have thrown at him." David Brinkley
Last edited by SportsNut : 02-14-2009 at 06:42 PM.
You have 10.5 yrs of insurance left.... any re-entry will be more costly, and who knows if you will be insurable at the end of this policy.
For 15.85 more per month (60.48 per mo) you can get a 20 yr term ROP... with Amer Gen'l, buying you another 9.5 yrs of guaranteed coverage. If you don't like AG, then Pru is 8 bucks per mo more... Sounds like a cheap price to pay for getting nearly 10yrs of guaranteed premium at the same rate, and you are going to recoup all the prems back at the end of 20... appx 14.4K...
I would bail and get a new deal... pocket the 720 on the front end, so there is nearly your 800 back already that you have sunk into the other ROP plan. Would you like me to set-up the paramed exam...?
LOL....I'll buy...where do I sign? There's another EX-Shenandoah policy.
Heck.....I would switch all of mine, if I could. The one on me, my wife, my wife's 2 children, my grandchild. Plus my son has his own policy with them...there's 6 more. Now my wife's sister has a policy with them.
Who in their right mind would keep "uninsured funds" in any bank, especially today...?
You can't even make a case for doing such a ridiculous thing today... although with every bank failure there seem to be that 2% that get caught in that trap of exceeding the insured deposit limit... I would rather keep the funds under the Jug on the front porch, if it were me... at least it would keep some theiving Banker from running off with it... If I'm getting robbed, I would rather it be some deserving local low-life that really needs the money...
Nope...they drafted, as requested, on a policy I have with them, yesterday.
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The company I wrote for before, that went under.....
Company Overview
First National Life Insurance Company (FNLIC), was domiciled in Alabama and licensed in 28 states. FNLIC was a wholly owned subsidiary of American Life Assurance Corporation (ALAC), and sold primarily accident and health insurance. In 1996, the company consented to receivership for the purpose of rehabilitation. During rehabilitation, the receiver transferred the Medicare supplement business to American Pioneer Life Insurance Company through an assumption reinsurance transaction. All remaining business was then canceled. The company was ordered liquidated in August 1997.
It took months to get the med-supp commission. They did catch up. All remaining business was canceled...hmmmmm
Last edited by Russ : 02-14-2009 at 07:02 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
Who in their right mind would keep "uninsured funds" in any bank, especially today...?
You can't even make a case for doing such a ridiculous thing today... although with every bank failure there seem to be that 2% that get caught in that trap of exceeding the insured deposit limit... I would rather keep the funds under the Jug on the front porch, if it were me... at least it would keep some theiving Banker from running off with it... If I'm getting robbed, I would rather it be some deserving local low-life that really needs the money...
I know of numerous people who are in this exact situation. They are afraid to do anything different; as the banks have used "scare tactics" to convince people to put all of their money in the bank. (To earn a commission) Greedy, Greedy C.D. salespeople..................
I am curious to know what happens to companies, big or small, that keep well over the FDIC limits; to maintain payroll obligations?
------------------------------------ Direct 1-866.417.9580 X 109 mail@ngfgllc.com
I know of numerous people who are in this exact situation. They are afraid to do anything different; as the banks have used "scare tactics" to convince people to put all of their money in the bank. (To earn a commission) Greedy, Greedy C.D. salespeople..................
I am curious to know what happens to companies, big or small, that keep well over the FDIC limits; to maintain payroll obligations?
The insane asylum is full of idiots too...
Those companies with excess deposits are "at-risk" of loss, if the institution were to go under. Some banks offer expanded insurance for deposits... called Excess Deposit Insurance Bond. This offers private insurance for the institutions depositors that exceed the limits of FDIC. I have no knowledge of what this market has done since the recent concerns over bank failures, except to guess that it is more difficult to acquire and more expensive as well. Then you are back to how solid is the insurance company that offers the coverage...?
Most Corp accounts are non-interest bearing accounts, by law. FDIC has temporarily expanded coverage for non-int bearing accounts to "unlimited", through Dec 31, 09. This is called the "Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program", but is only available at participating banks.
"Are all policies fully protected?
There are limits to FLAHIGA coverage set by the Florida Legislature through the FLAHIGA Act. A policy must meet coverage requirements, and there are limits to the amounts FLAHIGA pays as a maximum. If your insurance company fails, the maximum amount of protection provided by FLAHIGA for any one person is:
Life Insurance Death Benefit: $300,000 per insured life Life Insurance Cash Surrender: $100,000 insured life Health Insurance Claims: $300,000 per insured life Annuity Cash Surrender: $100,000 per contract owner Annuity in Benefit: $300,000 per contract owner"
Just make sure the company you go with will do replacements in KY. I know several that will not because of the lost contestability reg.
Yes, I know. I sell life insurance every day in Ky. You are correct, many companies chose to not do replacements in Ky because of that. This thread is about Shenandoah, they are a company that would not do replacements here. Lincoln Heritage is another. Whenever I'm looking at contracting with a company, that's one of the first things I ask them about.
Very incomplete answer. Refund your money.... has limits, in California, it's only 80% of the amount owed, etc. I can't find any reference to days to pay or interest, I'd be interested in a link for this.
Agreed, but at least it is funded. What is the status of your states insurance guaranty fund? I'm assuming at best it is underfunded, with a high likelyhood its assets have been lent to the states general fund.
I'm all for investing in insurance companies, that's how I make my living. I have problems with partial truths to make things sound safer than they are.
The truth is, both are reasonably safe places to put your money. The FDIC is probably a little safer, since lately all they have to do is run the money printing press for a few extra seconds and they can pay your claim. The guaranty fund would come from the state, so they would have to print an IOU in California right now.
In either case, it's the government vs the government, not insurance company vs the government.
Dan
You're right about California....
Are covered life insurance and annuity policies fully protected?
No. The maximum amount of protection for which the Guarantee Association may become liable for life insurance and annuity policies is as follows: Life insurance death benefit protection: 80% of the policy death benefit up to a maximum of $250,000; Life insurance net cash surrender and net cash withdrawal values: 80% of the policy value up to a maximum of $100,000; Present value of annuity benefits including net cash surrender and net cash withdrawal values: 80% of the present value up to a maximum of $100,000. Life insurance benefits including net cash surrender and net cash withdrawal values, and annuity benefits including net cash surrender and net cash withdrawal values are subject to interest rate adjustments. Generally, interest rate reductions are made when an insolvent insurer promised a rate of interest in excess of that provided for in the California Life & Health Insurance Guarantee Association Act. The maximum total amount the Guarantee Association will provide for any one individual for life insurance and annuity coverage is $250,000, even if that individual is covered by multiple life insurance policies and annuities.
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"Cynthia Light said the financial strength rating that Shenandoah now carries is still Best's fifth highest. "It is listed as good, in the secure category," Light said.
Light said the company's ratings are not a determinant of premiums. Nor is any effect on borrowing rates an issue, because the company doesn't routinely borrow, she said.
The ratings do give customers and sales agents an indication of the company's financial stability, she said. And, currently, the company is stable, she said."...........
And now it's unstable.
Last edited by Russ : 02-15-2009 at 08:09 AM.
Reason: Posts merged
Those companies with excess deposits are "at-risk" of loss, if the institution were to go under. Some banks offer expanded insurance for deposits... called Excess Deposit Insurance Bond. This offers private insurance for the institutions depositors that exceed the limits of FDIC. I have no knowledge of what this market has done since the recent concerns over bank failures, except to guess that it is more difficult to acquire and more expensive as well. Then you are back to how solid is the insurance company that offers the coverage...?
Most Corp accounts are non-interest bearing accounts, by law. FDIC has temporarily expanded coverage for non-int bearing accounts to "unlimited", through Dec 31, 09. This is called the "Temporary Liquidity Guarantee Program", but is only available at participating banks.
Has anyone received a paycheck from Shenandoah Life since the change?
Do any of you think they are going to keep paying the agents?
Is there any chance that someone will buy them and save them?
------------------------------------
Mark Rosenthal aka markingriffin
IMO/Ins Agent/Agent Trainer/Free Advice markcrosenthal@aol.comwww.realfastservice.com
Please visit mywebsite to learn more about me.
Email me for my Free Prospecting MP3 Tapes.
Has anyone received a paycheck from Shenandoah Life since the change?
Do any of you think they are going to keep paying the agents?
Is there any chance that someone will buy them and save them?
Since they are in the hands of a Receiver, I would doubt that they "could" pay comms... at least until the expenses are sorted out. Agents would simply be a creditor like anyone else, and won't receive any preferential consideration as such. No doubt they are paying some lawyer bills though, and probably with those comm dollars. Ouch.
Since they are in the hands of a Receiver, I would doubt that they "could" pay comms... at least until the expenses are sorted out. Agents would simply be a creditor like anyone else, and won't receive any preferential consideration as such. No doubt they are paying some lawyer bills though, and probably with those comm dollars. Ouch.
They sent a notice to all agents on Fri. that they were going to resume paying commissions. I normally get my pay from them on Fri. I didn't get anything on Fri. I was expecting to get something today since we got that notice. I forgot the banks were closed today. I guess we'll see tomorrow.
Since they are in the hands of a Receiver, I would doubt that they "could" pay comms... at least until the expenses are sorted out. Agents would simply be a creditor like anyone else, and won't receive any preferential consideration as such. No doubt they are paying some lawyer bills though, and probably with those comm dollars. Ouch.
EXACT VERBIAGE FROM 2/13/09, 3:16pm email:
Great news! We have just received news that we will be able to resume commission payments immediately!
The February 12
th commission payments will be processed today,and subsequent commission
payments will continue as scheduled.
Group commissions will be paid next week as scheduled, and will continue as scheduled.
My thought is that it was too late Friday to hit the banks with the deposits. Today being a holiday, there is no activity today. If there is nothing in there tomorrow, maybe we need to start worrying.
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Originally Posted by Markingriffin
Is there any chance that someone will buy them and save them?
If we are going to bailout AIG with $85,000,000,000 (that's with a B), it appears to me we would consider $70,000,000 (that's with an M) or so pure pocket change.
Only about $70 million is between this company being an "A" company, instead of being where they are.
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Joe Moore
National Senior Benefits
Asurco Insurance Marketing www.finalexpenseagents.comwww.shenagents.com
PO Box 1954, Morristown, TN 37816
1-800-226-1004, 1-423-581-1004
Last edited by Joe Moore : 02-16-2009 at 01:07 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
I just talked to the marketer I go through for Shenandoah Life. He thought they would survive. Some company is interested in buying Shenandoah Life and is meeting with them today is what I was told. The marketer said that we "should be getting our commissions."
If we are going to bailout AIG with $85,000,000,000 (that's with a B), it appears to me we would consider $70,000,000 (that's with an M) or so pure pocket change.
Only about $70 million is between this company being an "A" company, instead of being where they are.
Actually not to throw salt in the wound, but the current cost of the AIG bailout is now appx 154 Bn... yep, with a B. And no doubt the meter is still running on that debacle.
While we are thowing money around, might as well make it 100 mil, cause that might get them an A++ rating. That is what AIG used to have. Minor details.....
Re: Shenandoah Life Sales Suspended
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