I work for an agency and we only sell Assurant. There's a guarantee issue that's coming up on the horizon, but mainly just Assurant. Anyway, when we do a presentation and we take a look at our competitors we work through the high price by pointing out that they have a singular pay loophole. Depending on the carrier the singular pay loophole basically says that in a situation where you have multiple surgeons (like a car accident or serious major surgery) the insurance carrier will pay 100% for the first surgeon and a fraction for all other surgeons (usually that fraction is half). We also tackle the "allowable" charge and the reasonable and customary charge. We have a huge binder where we carry copies of all the policies.
My question is, as insurance agents have any of you collected a lot of stories where these loopholes have caught somebody in the wallet? Obviously we have several.
Interesting post. When I first left Mega I noticed Carefirst Blue Cross had similar language for their Personal Comp policy - that if more than 1 surgery was involved for the same accident/illness the "largest" surgery was paid at 100% and the rest were paid at like 50% or something to that affect. Common sense told me something must be up since complaints and lawsuits would be filed all over the place.
I called Carefirst. They told me that clause only states how doctors are compensated. So you get into a car accident and severely break your arm and leg. The leg is the most expensive paid at 100%. The arm is paid at 50% - which would lead an agent or client to believe they eat the rest.
Not correct...at least in Carefirst's case. In their contract balance billing is not allowed for any doctor or hospital in network. So doctors basically have to eat it. Out of network you're screwed.
An analogy would be Medicare. Say out found out before a surgery that Medicare only allowed $5,000 for a surgery that's estimated to be $10,000. You do not owe the other $5,000 - you cannot be balanced billed if the doctor/hospital is accepting Medicare since by default they are agreeing to the Medicare fee schedule.
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I know agents who go to extremes to promote how much better their policy is vs. another. In fact, I worked with a guy early on when I transitioned from large group to individual MM and he was quick to point out how the CGI plan was much better than BX, Humana, KP and others.
Of course (as I figured out on my own) the CGI policy was also lacking in some areas where the competitor had richer benefits for a better price.
Most consumers don't have the patience or willingness to learn the intricacies of their policy. If they did, they would never buy a Mega plan.
Consumers are broad brush folks who tend to discount things they don't understand or believe they will ever need. Why would anyone ever need more than $5000 in Rx benefits during a year? Everyone knows the hospital bill is the largest portion of your claim. So what if the plan caps outpatient expenses at $2500 per year or has an annual cap of $100,000? Who needs that?
Assurant is a good company with a good contract. That does not mean they are the best, or even the best option for your client.
I have 7 different carriers that I use on a regular basis. (Some more regularly than others). When I talk with a client I may want to put them with Golden Rule (since I place about 60% of my business with them) or KP (where another 10% or so goes) but just because that is what I want doesn't mean it is good for the client.
I really like Aetna. Perhaps more so than any other carrier. Their customer service is A+ in my book with KP & Golden Rule a close second.
Everyone else is an also ran.
But Aetna doesn't fit everyone. They have a narrow market focus (at least here in GA) and it is rare that they even come in to play.
A long time client is rolling off COBRA in another month and the best fit for him is Time. Their 3 year rate guarantee bridges him over to Medicare. Even though Time is charging slightly more for lesser benefits than Coventry (the spreadsheet winner) both of us are more comfortable going with Time vs. the other options.
This week I submitted 5 apps. Two went to Aetna, one to Coventry, one with KP, one with BX. To even consider BX is a rarity but it was a fit for the client. This was a very unusual week in many regards.
I personally think you do a disservice to your client when you only show one carrier, no matter how good that carrier may be.
I personally would love to sell more Aetna. However, when a family age 45 is $696 a month for a $2,500 deductible plan it's kinda tough. Their HSA prices are obscene. I can now only fit singles into Aetna.
I notice that very few peoplw talk about "Celtic." I haven't written a policy with them in about three years. But about five years ago, I placed about 75 policies with them.
Celtic was never a player in GA, at least not in recent memory. They had the only STM that did not ask if you had ever been turned down for coverage and as such, wrote a fair amount of STM business for years.
I have placed exactly 1 MM policy with them in the last 3 years. The only reason they show up now is because their numbers look good on a spread sheet, at least some of the time.
I really have no need for them and don't see any in the future.
Interesting post. When I first left Mega I noticed Carefirst Blue Cross had similar language for their Personal Comp policy - that if more than 1 surgery was involved for the same accident/illness the "largest" surgery was paid at 100% and the rest were paid at like 50% or something to that affect. Common sense told me something must be up since complaints and lawsuits would be filed all over the place.
I called Carefirst. They told me that clause only states how doctors are compensated. So you get into a car accident and severely break your arm and leg. The leg is the most expensive paid at 100%. The arm is paid at 50% - which would lead an agent or client to believe they eat the rest.
Not correct...at least in Carefirst's case. In their contract balance billing is not allowed for any doctor or hospital in network. So doctors basically have to eat it. Out of network you're screwed.
An analogy would be Medicare. Say out found out before a surgery that Medicare only allowed $5,000 for a surgery that's estimated to be $10,000. You do not owe the other $5,000 - you cannot be balanced billed if the doctor/hospital is accepting Medicare since by default they are agreeing to the Medicare fee schedule.
This addresses the singular pay loophole issue and has an alternative theory for the language. Does anyone else agree with this interpretation. I've read the clauses. In Blue Cross Florida, Humana of Florida, Continental or Florida, Golden Rule, Aetna, etc., they ALL have language that says in an instance with multiple surgeons, the first gets paid at 100 hundred percent and everyone else either gets fifty percent or less, depending on the carrier.
Better darned well contact the carriers with those clauses and find out the scoop. If you run around telling clients falsehoods about the competition that's no only unethical but opens you up for a lawsuit. In the case of Carefirst it's a non-issue if it's in network. If you're having a major surgery out of network it's neither her nor there since you're screwed with any company.
If you have Assurant managers telling you to trash talk the competition I'd walk off that job in a day. Sitting down with clients and whipping out "competitors" plans and trashing them is no way I'd want to make a living.
Better darned well contact the carriers with those clauses and find out the scoop. If you run around telling clients falsehoods about the competition that's no only unethical but opens you up for a lawsuit. In the case of Carefirst it's a non-issue if it's in network. If you're having a major surgery out of network it's neither her nor there since you're screwed with any company.
If you have Assurant managers telling you to trash talk the competition I'd walk off that job in a day. Sitting down with clients and whipping out "competitors" plans and trashing them is no way I'd want to make a living.
I sort of agree with you, but Golden Rule is only able to operate in fourteen states. You can tell this from just looking at their home page. Humana cancelled 50000 clients four years ago in the state of Florida. Their plans also don't have Max Out of Pockets. We personally have a friend who got hit in the wallet over the singular pay loophole with Blue Cross. Blue Cross also has an incidental clause where they state that if you have a hysterectomy and during the course of that surgery your appendix is removed, the incidental surgery is not covered. This is not trash talk, it's right there in the policy (including the example explaining what incidental surgery is). I'm saying all this to insurance salesman, so believe me when I say there's no rhetoric intended. I just want to hear what people who don't work for my company have to say about these clauses. Incidentally, when I make a presentation I actually have a copy of all the policies with me--it's part of the training.
You must not be aware of the "gotcha's" in the Core Med.
I can make any plan with any carrier look good . . . but I choose not to. The only plans that are offered are those that I would buy for my family.
If you want to ride one horse, that is your prerrogative. But when you run up against someone that has their clients best interest at heart, and offers multiple plans with different carriers, you will lose.
Seems to me you spent way too much time with Mega, learning how to sell against the plans you now offer. Old tricks are hard to shake off. Negative selling is not a formula for success.
I can't bash CoreMed at all. CoreMed's been responsible for getting a lot of clients insured when they had nothing and no other company would take them. CoreMed is "the best worst" plan available on the entire market.
And truth be told, if there has to be a captive health insurance agency out there then Assurant's the best way to go. Could never pull it off with any other company due to strict underwriting. GR is great....and they just declined a HSA client 5 pounds overweight with HBP on one med.
The other carriers can be great for people who don't have pre-ex. Assurant is still king of the country for people on meds or who are less than healthy. In GA they might not be since they don't offer all the underwriting decisions available. But that's GA specific - in other states although the rates are higher they still take clients other companies won't touch.
All of us can get on our high horses a bit much. EVERYTHING is captive! All agency owners for State Farm, Allstate, Nationwide, etc...are all unethical? Last time I checked if you walk into a State Farm office you can only buy Assurant for heath and State Farm products for auto, life and homeowners. Does that mean State Farm has to offer the BEST rates and BEST products or they're whores? Hell no!
I personally would never be captive - however just realize that independent does not work as a business model. If it does please show me a name brand national independent agency.
Business in general is captive. You work for Apple then you work for Apple. Does it mean you're a whore if Apple doesn't have THE BEST products? Hell know. Even sales reps on 1099 are captive in very single industry from medical sales to home improvements. I never never in my life seen a higher failure rate in anything then being an independent insurance agent. All working successful local agencies in my area are all captive.
You must not be aware of the "gotcha's" in the Core Med.
I can make any plan with any carrier look good . . . but I choose not to. The only plans that are offered are those that I would buy for my family.
If you want to ride one horse, that is your prerrogative. But when you run up against someone that has their clients best interest at heart, and offers multiple plans with different carriers, you will lose.
Seems to me you spent way too much time with Mega, learning how to sell against the plans you now offer. Old tricks are hard to shake off. Negative selling is not a formula for success.
If you're not talking about the four doctor visits, or the mental nervous, or the 50% copay plus $25 for non-generics, then please inform me. Seriously. We're required to remove facility fees when giving quotes. As for the negative route, it's got nothing to do with mega. It's just how my business company does its presentations. I'm explaining loopholes to this forum, not to knock those plans necessarily, but to find out if anyone else has had a client run into those issues. Personally, I can't afford Assurant. My wife has a group plan at her job and at the first of the year we're going to try out hardest to get on her plan without having to pay the 8k/year group rate amount. Her success this year may give us a little leverage with respect to that.
As far as I'm concerned health plans either have the loophole problems or they don't. I think it's my responsibility as an agent to lay those things out to my client. However, and this is important, if they're not issues they need to be worried about, then I'd like to know that and that's what prompted my question in the first place. And guys and ladies, I've been doing this about three months. I recognize that I don't know everything. That's why I'm asking these questions.
Lastly, I never worked for Mega. I came damn close. I almost started a training sessions, but that's as close as I got. Honestly.
Hey, listen - if you're new in this biz it's been agreed upon that being captive to start is the best way to go - then later you can move to independence. And if you're gonna be captive selling health there's no better company than Assurant. Not the best rates - which is neither here nor there if a good plan fits into your client's budget.
In the FL market it's Assurant, GR, GTL, World, Humana, UA and Blue Cross. I can see why your Assurant GA wants to keep you away from Blue Cross - they are captive in FL and pay 20% commission.
Hey, listen - if you're new in this biz it's been agreed upon that being captive to start is the best way to go - then later you can move to independence. And if you're gonna be captive selling health there's no better company than Assurant. Not the best rates - which is neither here nor there if a good plan fits into your client's budget.
In the FL market it's Assurant, GR, GTL, World, Humana, UA and Blue Cross. I can see why your Assurant GA wants to keep you away from Blue Cross - they are captive in FL and pay 20% commission.
Singular Pay Loophole
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