Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
On November 11th, 2008 the source of almost two thirds of the spam on the internet was taken offline. A single co-location center, McColo, was the source of the computers relaying the spam and their upstream providers voluntarily gave them the axe. Incidentally, many lead providers suddenly lost an incredible amount of volume. If you noticed that your lead provider suddenly and inexplicably started sending you less leads just after this date, you may want to ask them how they generate there leads.
For general information on what happened you can search Google for McColo and many news articles come up. This is one of them:
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
I've never understood why lead providers are remotely concerned with volume.
Volume is what it is and quality cannot be created. "X" number of people are naturally searching for health insurance on any given day. It is what it is.
I remember working for car dealers who would do stupid stuff to boost lot traffic like mail out 5,000 keys - 1 started the car.
What did we get? 1,000 people on the lot with zero intention of buying who chewed up our time. We were busy...but we weren't selling.
As for leads - say in Maryland there's 100 leads a day up for grab - 100% search driven - people actually looking for quotes.
Fine - once 100 are sold that's it. Too many agents? You jack the price. So if you're sold out in MD at $8 a lead then they become $10 per lead. If they're sold out at $10 then it's $12.
In the end the lead companies end up with:
*Agents who can actually close
*Agents who are not broke
*Agents who stick with the source forever
What actually happens? There are more agents then natural leads so lead vendors get creative or farm it out to affiliates who get creative. What happens?
*Lead quality is watered down
*Solid agents with money leave
*Lead vendors spend time having to constantly recruit new agents
*New agents are broke and can't close so they quit
*Rinse and repeat
Don't you guys get it? I don't care if a lead is $5, $6, or $10. I want to call people who actually want quotes.
------------------------------------ Health Insurance Agents: Training, Support, Discounts, E&O for $440 www.ihiaa.com
Last edited by healthagent : 11-22-2008 at 07:17 AM.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
What happens?
*Lead quality is watered down
*Solid agents with money leave
*Lead vendors spend time having to constantly recruit new agents
*New agents are broke and can't close so they quit
*Rinse and repeat
Don't you guys get it? I don't care if a lead is $5, $6, or $10. I want to call people who actually want quotes.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Originally Posted by healthagent
I've never understood why lead providers are remotely concerned with volume.
Volume is what it is and quality cannot be created. "X" number of people are naturally searching for health insurance on any given day. It is what it is.
I remember working for car dealers who would do stupid stuff to boost lot traffic like mail out 5,000 keys - 1 started the car.
What did we get? 1,000 people on the lot with zero intention of buying who chewed up our time. We were busy...but we weren't selling.
As for leads - say in Maryland there's 100 leads a day up for grab - 100% search driven - people actually looking for quotes.
Fine - once 100 are sold that's it. Too many agents? You jack the price. So if you're sold out in MD at $8 a lead then they become $10 per lead. If they're sold out at $10 then it's $12.
In the end the lead companies end up with:
*Agents who can actually close
*Agents who are not broke
*Agents who stick with the source forever
What actually happens? There are more agents then natural leads so lead vendors get creative or farm it out to affiliates who get creative. What happens?
*Lead quality is watered down
*Solid agents with money leave
*Lead vendors spend time having to constantly recruit new agents
*New agents are broke and can't close so they quit
*Rinse and repeat
Don't you guys get it? I don't care if a lead is $5, $6, or $10. I want to call people who actually want quotes.
I am in complete agreement. Now I just have to figure out a way to get all the other lead generators to agree as well.
Unfortunately, lead providers make money by selling leads and therefore we live and die by volume. The temptation to create demand with spam is great in the face of the instant dollars it can produce. Affiliate programs compound this problem dramatically as affiliates have even less connection to the end customer. Further, affiliates are a great tool for plausable deniability on the part of the lead company. "Don't ask Don't tell" is too often the norm in the affiliate-lead generator relationship.
Real demand cannot be created artificially. There are only so many people shopping for insurance at any given time in any given area as you state. That is a truth that is self evident. Unfortunately, many agents figure that out too late.
When McColo went dark we had a flood of new orders at MostChoice as agents saw the lead volume from their other providers plummet. We've never used spam and never had an affiliate program so we were completely unaffected. We knew something was up with some lead companies volume even before the story broke but couldn't put our finger on what had happened. Apparently there were two other colo companies that were knocked off before McColo. Some of our clients were even asking us if "xxxx" lead company was out of business because they hadn't gotten a lead from them in days. It was odd. We had never heard that before.
What this means to you as an agent is that whenever you see something odd with your lead volume, you need to be asking questions of your lead provider as to what caused it. It may be something perfectly normal and explainable. If they are generating leads search engine only you may see some fluctuations as there are certain times of year that people aren't focused on buying insurance, especially around the holidays and the middle of the summer. The same holds true for Fridays and Weekends. Not too many people are focused on shopping for insurance on Friday nights, etc.
Anyway, I just thought I would point this McColo situation out before the story fades away. I'm sure the spammers will find new servers somewhere else soon. Hopefully, the upstream providers will take action again and take them out proactively. It will only be when we act proactively that the problem is solved.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
I noticed below my signature an advertisement for buyinginsuranceleads.com has appeared. I believe this is a rotating add that only appears when you are not logged in, so you may or may not see it. I didn't include that advertisement in my post so I guess it is just something that goes in automatically. Anyway, I clicked on that advertisement and it was an advertisement for Netquote or a Netquote affiliate. Out of curiosity, what does this statement mean to you, the agent?
"Our data shows that 6 out of 10 of our consumers will purchase insurance through an agent with NetQuote's Agent Network."
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
If true, NetQuote is a lot better than I thought.
One thing about NQ...never a dull moment with them. Some of the worst leads known to man...and some of the best ("Hi...I'm glad you called. Let's talk.")
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Originally Posted by MikeLevy
I noticed below my signature an advertisement for buyinginsuranceleads.com has appeared. I believe this is a rotating add that only appears when you are not logged in, so you may or may not see it. I didn't include that advertisement in my post so I guess it is just something that goes in automatically. Anyway, I clicked on that advertisement and it was an advertisement for Netquote or a Netquote affiliate. Out of curiosity, what does this statement mean to you, the agent?
"Our data shows that 6 out of 10 of our consumers will purchase insurance through an agent with NetQuote's Agent Network."
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Isn't is amazing that Mike Levy only shows up here when he get a mega fine for unethical business activities. Being "helpful" now will not make agents here believe he suddenly gained ethics.
My personal recommendation based upon my experience is I would rather cold call into a nursing home for IFP than contract with his company.
Rick
------------------------------------ ILIAA
Training, Community, Support, and Success Independent Life Insurance Agents Assn rick@iliaa.org
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Originally Posted by CHUMPS FROM OXFORD
If true, NetQuote is a lot better than I thought.
One thing about NQ...never a dull moment with them. Some of the worst leads known to man...and some of the best ("Hi...I'm glad you called. Let's talk.")
Do you think that it is possible that any lead service could deliver leads that would close 60% of the time, on average?
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Originally Posted by CHUMPS FROM OXFORD
Do you think that it is possible that any lead service could deliver leads that would close 60% of the time, on average?"
No disrespect intended, but you are not the right person to be asking about what lead services can and can not deliver.
None taken. In fact, that is a question better asked by every person buying leads of the lead vendors they are buying from. Correct?
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Originally Posted by GreenSky
Isn't is amazing that Mike Levy only shows up here when he get a mega fine for unethical business activities. Being "helpful" now will not make agents here believe he suddenly gained ethics.
My personal recommendation based upon my experience is I would rather cold call into a nursing home for IFP than contract with his company.
Rick
Rick,
You are right about one thing, I wasn't here before now, and I should have been.
I've done a lot of soul searching as a result of this verdict and, whether it sticks or not, one of the conclusions I have come to is that if I had been on this board, sharing what I do know about this industry, and asking questions, I would not be in the mess I am right now and neither would the lead generation industry.
I am one of the founders of the lead generation business. I remember when it started there weren't many of us doing it, less than 10 including Marty and I. I have acquired a lot of knowledge over the last 10+ years. I know things about the lead generation business that no one else on this board would have the opportunity to know and I need to be actively sharing it.
If I had a time machine I would go back and do it all very differently. Unfortunately, I just checked my garage and there is no Delorean there, only my 6 year old Infiniti that desperately needs a coat of new paint.
The only thing I can do now is to try to make up for it all by actively sharing what I do know to the extent that I am legally allowed to. Hopefully, in time, I will earn that trust you speak of.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Mike:
It's going to take a lot more than your "soul searching" to get me to believe you're anything but a bastard. You treated me like crap, provided absolutely terrible "leads," and then would not refund my money - even for leads I never received.
I hope you and your business fail. What goes around, comes around.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Originally Posted by GreenSky
Mike:
It's going to take a lot more than your "soul searching" to get me to believe you're anything but a bastard. You treated me like crap, provided absolutely terrible "leads," and then would not refund my money - even for leads I never received.
I hope you and your business fail. What goes around, comes around.
Rick
Rick,
I just looked at your account. Honestly, it's been so many years I don't remember you. It looks like you have not done business with us in nearly 5 years. Your recollection of things also seems a little skewed. Your credit card company turned you down. It looks like you asked for credit for every single lead we sent you, months after receiving the leads and your card was already maxed out. I see a note in the system that you ran out of money. Is it possible you got into some financial trouble? Apparently, you were also verbally abusive to the customer service staff. You made one of the girls cry. That's not nice and didn't help matters.
Holding a grudge for this many years is not healthy. You may want to consider some anger management support groups. Some of them are free or cost little money so I'm sure you can find one that will fit your budget.
I wish you the best of luck.
Yours Truly,
Michael Levy
Chairman and Founder
MostChoice.com, Inc.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Mike, You are making yourself look really bad. First as a business owner, You should never discuss someones financial situation. This has got to be one of the most absurd post I have read. You know all you have done is hurt your own business in all this process. Bottom Line You are Dishonest,
The verdict no matter what you say has happened or will happen, you have already ruined any credibility with Agents on this board and I am sure many more.
And Google hammered you with no orgainic ranking power and stripped you of any authority. (PR0)
That is done and you will not convince google with your excuses or reasons why you did what you did.
No organic Search Traffic and having a PR0 website that has been around since 1999. Hurts you more than you will ever admit.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Originally Posted by MikeLevy
Rick,
I just looked at your account. Honestly, it's been so many years I don't remember you. It looks like you have not done business with us in nearly 5 years. Your recollection of things also seems a little skewed. Your credit card company turned you down. It looks like you asked for credit for every single lead we sent you, months after receiving the leads and your card was already maxed out. I see a note in the system that you ran out of money. Is it possible you got into some financial trouble? Apparently, you were also verbally abusive to the customer service staff. You made one of the girls cry. That's not nice and didn't help matters.
Holding a grudge for this many years is not healthy. You may want to consider some anger management support groups. Some of them are free or cost little money so I'm sure you can find one that will fit your budget.
I wish you the best of luck.
Yours Truly,
Michael Levy
Chairman and Founder
MostChoice.com, Inc.
No Mike, my recollection is correct and trying to put me down for financial or anger issues is wrong.
I returned lead after lead because the people did not want to talk to me or any other agent. I disputed the credit card charge before you finished sending me the leads. My card was not maxed out and there was no financial trouble.
You can do all you want to make me look bad but the bottom line is you cheated me and did not live up to your promises of what the industry would actually call "leads." The agents on this forum may or may not all like me, but they know that I am honest in everything I say and do. Your lies about your "records" and recollections will not change that.
My credit card company turned me down after you fought my dispute and required me to pay the charge. If you want to equate that with financial trouble, you go ahead and live in your fantasy world. Regarding being abusive, I do recall discussing the issues (and likely I got upset) but making "one of the girls cry" is absurd (unless she might have been 10 yrs. old).
As far as financial trouble, perhaps you should look in the mirror. As far as anger management, you screwed me years ago and the least I can do is keep other agents from working with you.
Thanks for the advice on holding a grudge and about support groups. Clearly you are better at being a psychologist than you are a business owner.
If you want to make amends, go ahead and refund my money for the terrible leads and service you provided. You might want to add interest and punitive damages for being an asshole.
(Yes, this is a personal attack and well deserved).
Rick
Last edited by GreenSky : 11-25-2008 at 12:20 PM.
Reason: worried about the punctuation police
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
I almost got roped in about three years ago, but after talking to some other agents about what Rick just mentioned, I decided to leave it alone. Glad I did.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
I didn't know MostChoice from anyone but never bit years when they asked for $500 down when very reputable competitors asked for either nothing down or a small deposit.
That also means I spent thousands and thousands with other lead providers simply because the $500 made me think something was amiss.
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
Originally Posted by healthagent
I didn't know MostChoice from anyone but never bit years when they asked for $500 down when very reputable competitors asked for either nothing down or a small deposit.
That also means I spent thousands and thousands with other lead providers simply because the $500 made me think something was amiss.
Let me make sure I understand you correctly. You have never tried ANY of our leads, yet you recommend insurance lead companies, and are making derogatory statements about us?
What do you base your suspicions upon, other than we don't pay you a commission?
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Originally Posted by GreenSky
(Yes, this is a personal attack and well deserved).
Rick
Seek help!
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Originally Posted by Delta76
I almost got roped in about three years ago, but after talking to some other agents about what Rick just mentioned, I decided to leave it alone. Glad I did.
Just so that I understand this correctly, you didn't buy from us either, you have no first hand experience with our leads, yet you are certain you made the right decision?
Re: Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?Go to Top
I would never recommend anyone put in $500 to see what's going on.
There are more moving parts than just "good and bad leads." Some lead companies work out for one agent, don't work out for another.
If for whatever reason an agent needs to move onto a different source I don't recommend they have $500 tied up.
One member, case in point, spent $100 on a particular source and didn't like the results. He tried another vendor and is very happy - however, that experience only cost him $100 - not $500.
Can you point out other lead providers who ask for $500 upfront?
I'm not sure why you're upset - we don't recommend Netquote either.
Spam Colo Knocked Offline. Did your lead volume drop?
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