Still no offical 2009 MA commisions posted

Insuranceman · 10-20-2008, 07:54 PM

Another week has gone by and still no offical 2009 MA commisions posted. So far I've only heard rumors about Covertry and Humana commisions but nothing for United Health Care or Wellcare.

GreenSky · 10-20-2008, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Insuranceman

Another week has gone by and still no offical 2009 MA commisions posted. So far I've only heard rumors about Covertry and Humana commisions but nothing for United Health Care or Wellcare.

I saw Coventry somewhere and believe its $400 for MA and $50 for PDP.

UHC posted today. Depending on the state, MA is about $500 and PDP $85.

These are new and renewal.

Rick

retread · 10-20-2008, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by GreenSky

I saw Coventry somewhere and believe its $400 for MA and $50 for PDP.

UHC posted today. Depending on the state, MA is about $500 and PDP $85.

These are new and renewal.

Rick

"Street level" for Coventry is $500 both new and renewal.

patch36 · 10-20-2008, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by retread

"Street level" for Coventry is $500 both new and renewal.

Yeah, what he said about Coventry. $500 for new and renewals. I recd that in an email.

Humana is not official, but I hear from lots of sources it will be $500 for new and renewal.

retread · 10-20-2008, 10:13 PM

It seems to me that "churning" is not being addressed by raising commissions. Also noted is that virtually ALL MAOs are matching street level.

My conclusion is that perhaps an anticipated sales slow-down is prompting the raise. What do you think? Are your MA sales expectations for the upcoming AEP looking up or down?

Businesses don't hand out raises for nothing. I think the competition for MA sales is getting tighter, and I expect to have to work harder to get them.

GreenSky · 10-20-2008, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by retread

It seems to me that "churning" is not being addressed by raising commissions. Also noted is that virtually ALL MAOs are matching street level.

My conclusion is that perhaps an anticipated sales slow-down is prompting the raise. What do you think? Are your MA sales expectations for the upcoming AEP looking up or down?

Businesses don't hand out raises for nothing. I think the competition for MA sales is getting tighter, and I expect to have to work harder to get them.

That's exactly what I think is happening. Companies are panicking and are worried about hitting their "numbers." By raising the commission levels they are almost asking agents to churn as much as possible.

This is exactly what CMS wanted to avoid but they're idiots. All that was necessary was to end lock-in and to have commissions earned monthly. That gets rid of all the bad agents and ethical agents can help people like we've always done.

Rick

Frank Stastny · 10-20-2008, 11:13 PM

I still think it will be the end of the month before we hear anything.

retread · 10-21-2008, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

I still think it will be the end of the month before we hear anything.

Frank... you need batteries for your hearing aids again!

Frank Stastny · 10-21-2008, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by retread

Frank... you need batteries for your hearing aids again!

When I see something in writing from the companies I will believe it.

I just talked to my "go to man" Anthony and my commission for Pyramid is $430 for MAPD and $395 for MA only. That is for 5 years. Year 6 is $100.

But, I don't have that in writing yet either.

We will see if batteries are needed or not. If so will you send me a set please?

retread · 10-21-2008, 10:06 AM

Today's email from UHG sets 2009 commission level for various market segments (divided into 3 groups by 4 products). $550 fyc/$500 for Group 1... I fall into Group 3 for the most part... $500/$300. Frank, you may have some Group 2 levels ($550/$500) which for MAPDs are the same as Group 1 (go figure).

Read the fine print when you get your email.... these commissions are for electronic aps. Paper aps will result in a $50 charge off.

PDPs are $85 fyc/renew across the board.

jdeasy · 10-21-2008, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by retread

Today's email from UHG sets 2009 commission level for various market segments (divided into 3 groups by 4 products). $550 fyc/$500 for Group 1... I fall into Group 3 for the most part... $500/$300. Frank, you may have some Group 2 levels ($550/$500) which for MAPDs are the same as Group 1 (go figure).

Read the fine print when you get your email.... these commissions are for electronic aps. Paper aps will result in a $50 charge off.

PDPs are $85 fyc/renew across the board.

I got that info as well. For me, the commissions in In are $525 1st year and $475 renewals. In Ky, it's $450 1st yr and $300 renewals for PFFS plans. In Tn., the PFFS is the same as Ky except it's $500 1st year and $300 renewals for the SNP.

Frank Stastny · 10-21-2008, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by retread

Today's email from UHG sets 2009 commission level for various market segments (divided into 3 groups by 4 products). $550 fyc/$500 for Group 1... I fall into Group 3 for the most part... $500/$300. Frank, you may have some Group 2 levels ($550/$500) which for MAPDs are the same as Group 1 (go figure).

Read the fine print when you get your email.... these commissions are for electronic aps. Paper aps will result in a $50 charge off.

PDPs are $85 fyc/renew across the board.

Most likely I will not receive an e-mail from UHG. In fact, I have not received an e-mail from anyone yet.

Apparently there is some question regarding agents getting paid first year commission when replacing one MA plan with another MA plan. I have to assume that Anthony is more "up to speed" on what is happening than we are, at least I hope so.

He has been involved in meetings where they are trying to figure out exactly what the wording from CMS really means regarding payment of commissions. Apparently it is so ambiguous that the guys who are suppose to know still are not comfortable enough to put it in writing.

One interpretation is that agents, when replacing an MA plan, will not receive any first year commissions. I'm not saying that is gospel but apparently one way of reading what CMS is saying.

I haven't seen it so I don't know. He did read it to me over the phone and I can see how that might be what they are saying.

What a mess. It is a good thing that the enrollment period isn't coming up in a couple of weeks. haha

jdeasy · 10-21-2008, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by Frank Stastny

Most likely I will not receive an e-mail from UHG. In fact, I have not received an e-mail from anyone yet.

Apparently there is some question regarding agents getting paid first year commission when replacing one MA plan with another MA plan. I have to assume that Anthony is more "up to speed" on what is happening than we are, at least I hope so.

He has been involved in meetings where they are trying to figure out exactly what the wording from CMS really means regarding payment of commissions. Apparently it is so ambiguous that the guys who are suppose to know still are not comfortable enough to put it in writing.

One interpretation is that agents, when replacing an MA plan, will not receive any first year commissions. I'm not saying that is gospel but apparently one way of reading what CMS is saying.

I haven't seen it so I don't know. He did read it to me over the phone and I can see how that might be what they are saying.

What a mess. It is a good thing that the enrollment period isn't coming up in a couple of weeks. haha

That is also what I understand the argument/discussion is about. But, if a company pays the same for renewals as for 1st year, it's a moot point.

Gives the beaurecrats something to do, I suppose?

policy doctor · 10-21-2008, 01:17 PM

That is also what I understand the argument/discussion is about. But, if a company pays the same for renewals as for 1st year, it's a moot point.

Unless they say that replacements are governed by the first year contract of the initial writing company.

jdeasy · 10-21-2008, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by policy doctor

That is also what I understand the argument/discussion is about. But, if a company pays the same for renewals as for 1st year, it's a moot point.

Unless they say that replacements are governed by the first year contract of the initial writing company.

Yes, but if they are all "level", wouldn't it be close to the same?

policy doctor · 10-21-2008, 01:35 PM

Perhaps i need to clarify that statement. A plan sold in 2007 or 2008 has different renewals than the ones coming up for 2009.

I think on the old ones I may average $8 to $10/mo renewal. That is on the ma and mapd. The pdp is like nothing. And i have a few HMO's who paid a higher commission last year, but no renewals.

So based on that old contract, CMS might say "go ahead and replace with a newer plan, but your renewal is based on that initial sale 2 years ago." Only new sales to a MA/MAPD for 2009 will receive the NEW commission structure. That would squelch any churning.

And i'm sure the look back would only be one year. So if someone had an MA in 2007, then switched to a med supp for 2008, then decided to buy MA for 2009....he would be considered a New sale.

Just musing here.

jdeasy · 10-21-2008, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by policy doctor

Perhaps i need to clarify that statement. A plan sold in 2007 or 2008 has different renewals than the ones coming up for 2009.

I think on the old ones I may average $8 to $10/mo renewal. That is on the ma and mapd. The pdp is like nothing. And i have a few HMO's who paid a higher commission last year, but no renewals.

So based on that old contract, CMS might say "go ahead and replace with a newer plan, but your renewal is based on that initial sale 2 years ago." Only new sales to a MA/MAPD for 2009 will receive the NEW commission structure. That would squelch any churning.

And i'm sure the look back would only be one year. So if someone had an MA in 2007, then switched to a med supp for 2008, then decided to buy MA for 2009....he would be considered a New sale.

Just musing here.

OK. I see where you are coming from now. That would suck. I hope that's not what's coming down the pike.

kdover · 10-21-2008, 10:58 PM

WOW???? That would definitely suck.

Frank Stastny · 10-22-2008, 12:01 AM

Originally Posted by kdover

WOW???? That would definitely suck.

I agree, but that's one of the things Anthony was talking about this morning.

He was told "they" would have it all sorted out this afternoon. Guess what, this afternoon has come and gone.

Hey, you got your 20.

patch36 · 10-22-2008, 07:21 AM

As it is, there will be a frenzy to move all MA's to a different company since the renewals are way higher. If this stands it will make the problem worse than ever before regarding churning. The incentive to churn in the future has been increased because if you move someone from another company, bam....$500.

I appears to me that the companies may have kicked a sleeping dog and the agents will be the ones to get bit. I can't imagine CMS letting this stand.