Taxing Health Benefits

Winter · 03-15-2009, 08:56 AM

"Now that President Obama has begun the health debate, several advisers say that while he will not propose changing the tax-free status of employee health benefits, neither will he oppose it if Congress does so."

What kind of leadership is this. It means you talk to Pelosi and see what you can get her to agree to so that you dont have to take a stand. Or does it just mean that you are opposed to it but will not resist it if Pelosi wants it.

It's nuts anyway unless offset by a credit but that is not the point. This sounds like a John Kerry "I voted against it before I voted for it" kind of leadership.

Change you can believe in.

NYT: Obama open to taxing health benefits - The New York Times- msnbc.com

GreenSky · 03-15-2009, 10:49 AM

Bush and Obama. Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumber.

When are we going to return to liberty?

Rick

Winter · 03-15-2009, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by GreenSky

Bush and Obama. Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumber.

When are we going to return to liberty?

Rick

Nevertheless, if one were to think about Tweedle-dumber for a minute, could someone explain to me how taxing health benefits squares with Odumber's statement that "no one making less than $250,000 a year will see a tax increase."

Mr. Bill · 03-15-2009, 11:14 AM

Perhaps the Big O doesn't realize the concept is taking us back to pre-WWII days. Then again, he probably also doesn't have any clue that there are such things as S125 plans. Ah, hell, get rid of them all and be done with it.

al3 · 03-15-2009, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by GreenSky

Bush and Obama. Tweedle-Dumb and Tweedle-Dumber.

When are we going to return to liberty?

Rick

I don't understand. Conservatives and libertarians (hard to tell them apart most of the time) expel a lot of gas bitching and moaning about various health insurance proposals, but I wonder if it is only to the choir?

Do you guys go to your local NAHU meetings?

Do you write letters to your representatives as well as those in the bureaucracy?

Have you organized "Agents against health care reform" or some similar moniker?

Have you contributed money or time or effort to your cause? Do you have any skin in the game at all beyond this venue?

How do you think we moderates and liberals were able to beat a genuine American hero... a good and decent man... John McCain... to elect Obama?

It wasn't by sitting on our asses and complaining.

We organized, we went to meetings, we went door-to-door visiting our neighbors and leaving reading material. We contributed money (by buying lawn/window signs and water bottles.)

Bottom line, Obama became President because a lot of people simply understood one very simple principle of human dynamics:

"Decisions are made by those who show up."

Rick, Winter, Mr. Bill, et. al., if you want to roll-back or block the move to a single payor system (or whatever your worst nightmare is) you need to get "out there" and "show up." You have a story to tell. Tell it.

Organize other agents, write letters to the editor. Get anti-reform articles into the media. Create a new "Harry and Louise."

Don't you folks know that it is much easier to stop something... than to start it? Yet all you do is bitch and moan... to each other. What good does that do?

Why not harness John Ps IHIAA organization to help with this effort? Why not work on and send out a "play book" on how local agents can get their voice heard to your arch enemies Barny and Nancy and Chas. What about putting together an "Agents march on Washington" in support of the current system?

You are not going to be able to keep your golden goose from being plucked and cooked by just moaning about it here in this venue.

It is a "community organizer" who became president. You don't have to like him (that's a given) but you should be able to learn from him. He didn't get there by accident or good luck.

You need to get off your fat butts and organize... assuming you really do feel strongly about what you post here about how terrific the current system is and how it should be perpetuated.

Get your story out there. Find some bright articulate spokespeople to do the TV and radio talking-head circuit.

Just do it... and stop your bitching for goodness sakes.

Al

GreenSky · 03-15-2009, 12:35 PM

Don't assume that just because I bitch and moan on this forum (and I bitched about Bush as well) that I am not an activist.

Yes, I have written letters. Yes, I have met with my congressman. I've met several times with my city council representative.

I've given a substantial amount of money to elect candidates I support around the country as well as money to the libertarian party. I actually walk the walk.

You can put me down all you want Al. You are evil and can't understand that those of us who disagree with you might be doing it because we actually love this country and are sad that in the past 60 years it's turned to crap. Republicans and Democrats both stink. (But you stink most of all Al.)

Rick

al3 · 03-15-2009, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by GreenSky

Yes, I have written letters. Yes, I have met with my congressman. I've met several times with my city council representative.

You? With your anger-management issues have been able to have a productive meeting with an elected representative? I'd love to have seen that meeting (assuming it actually happened!) I can just see you in action now... calling them every name in the book... ranting and raving, being insulting as well as foul and vulgar... as you are here.

You are the poster child for incorrigibility. No one is ever going to take you seriously in the political arena, any more than we take you seriously here in this one.

I've given a substantial amount of money to elect candidates I support around the country as well as money to the libertarian party.

Anyone can write a check. But face it, you don't HAVE substantial amounts of money... so there is no way you could "give" it.

I actually walk the walk.

It think it is closer to talking the talk.

we actually love this country and are sad that in the past 60 years it's turned to crap.

I think it is closer to you loving the greed that the current health financing system allows you to get away with.

Republicans and Democrats both stink. (But you stink most of all Al.)

I suppose you said something similar to your city council. Who would be surprised?

Rick B. as a community organizer! Now THERE is change NO ONE will believe in!!!

Rick, you know what they call a leader without any followers? Just a guy taking a walk.

Enjoy your walk.

TXINSURANCE · 03-15-2009, 01:14 PM

How do you think we moderates and liberals were able to beat a genuine American hero... a good and decent man... John McCain... to elect Obama?

It wasn't by sitting on our asses and complaining.

We organized, we went to meetings, we went door-to-door visiting our neighbors and leaving reading material. We contributed money (by buying lawn/window signs and water bottles.)

Bottom line, Obama became President because a lot of people simply understood one very simple principle of human dynamics:

"Decisions are made by those who show up."

Very true and well put, even if people don't agree with you - this is a hard paragraph to disagree with.

bluemarlin08 · 03-15-2009, 01:40 PM

Why shouldn't health premiums be taxed as income? What is different regarding health insurance than other types of insurance?

Winter · 03-15-2009, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by bluemarlin08

Why shouldn't health premiums be taxed as income? What is different regarding health insurance than other types of insurance?

Probably good reasons to tax it and good reasons to give a credit for it too. Who knows. Once you are outside of flat tax environment there is argument for and against everything.

However, Obama still has splaining to do. McCain argued for taxing it and for giving a credit etc. Obama said that no one making less than 250k would see a dime in tax increase, yet that sounds like a tax to me. That is his job to explain that now. I am listening. Also, Joe Biden is supposed to be the Czar to protect the middle class so that (even if there is an argument for taxing it) the middle class does not get bilked more and more shift wealth to the class that gets subsidized or free stuff. Get going Joe. I am listening to you too. Go for it.

bluemarlin08 · 03-15-2009, 03:30 PM

Another thing that burns me. I am on COBRA, paying 1400 per month, would gladly take that 65% subsidy, but not available to me because I went on COBRA prior to Sept 2008. In addition, this subsidy gives the insured a distorted view of the dangers of staying on COBRA and the risk of health problems occuring.

arnguy · 03-15-2009, 03:41 PM

Al. I think the group you mentioned already has a spokesperson. However, I would not say that he is bright and articulate----he is just a fat, loud mouthed, ton of crap known as Rush Limbaugh!

moonlightandmargaritas · 03-15-2009, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by Winter

Nevertheless, if one were to think about Tweedle-dumber for a minute, could someone explain to me how taxing health benefits squares with Odumber's statement that "no one making less than $250,000 a year will see a tax increase."

Are you guys forgetting that Obama said that the average family's premium would go down by $2,500 a year?

That should more than make up for the additional tax...

Of course some believe in the tooth fairy too.

al3 · 03-15-2009, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by bluemarlin08

Another thing that burns me. I am on COBRA, paying 1400 per month, would gladly take that 65% subsidy,

Hold on to your hats and eyeglasses folks! We have an insurance agent who, on a web board populated by 95% Limbaugh right-wingers (the intellectual voice of the Republican party) saying to everyone here that he would take a government subsidy?

Wow. That's huge! Does that take balls... or what! I can't wait for Winter and Mr. Bill and the the rest to pile on.

Put on your flack-jacket because... I N C O M I N G !!!!

djs · 03-15-2009, 04:07 PM

However, Obama still has splaining to do. McCain argued for taxing it and for giving a credit etc. Obama said that no one making less than 250k would see a dime in tax increase, yet that sounds like a tax to me. That is his job to explain that now.

He's playing the word game. You're tax rate doesn't go up at all, but what you pay does. He's also mentioned doing away with things like those ugly, filthy, mean spirited 401K's and other retirement vehicles.

Let's see, then there is the cap and trade that will have the average family pay another $100 per month in taxes, but not directly. It comes at the gas pump and on your electric bill, as well as a higher cost on most products.

Obama is a brilliant politician. He's learned that so far, most people don't look past what he says, then he can do almost anything on paper. In the rare event things come up, it was done at congress, he just accepts the fact that things aren't perfect, we'll fix Washington later.

Dan