Insurance Agent Forum

[Charpress]

I just got an email that a LTC policy I submitted two months ago was declined because the lady was taking an anti-depressant and because of something she apparently said to the underwriting folks in a telephone interview.

This is the third app declined in the last several months because of depression issues.

Is anyone else seeing this? I'm also having a bit of a problem understanding the underwriting concerns with LTCI and this issue. I can certainly understand the issue with a life policy and the possibility of suicide. Maybe botched suicide and then needing long term care?

[moonlightandmargaritas]

They are looking for pristine cases - it's more profitable for a long-tail product like ltci, that's had some serious challenges and issues.

Just an excuse not to take the risk.

[Charpress]

Yes, that makes sense.

People I write who are in their fifties without any medical problems sail through. The biggest pain is when a spouse is declined and the other spouse is now looking at a policy that no longer has the big spousal discount.

[Never_a_dull_moment]

I've been specializing in LTCi since 1995. I've never had anyone declined for depression. I've had one person who said they had depression, but they actually had a history of schizophrenia...

What kind of depression did these people have?

[Charpress]

Depression that requires anti-depressant medications.

Maybe this is a bigger deal with Allianz, which is where these rejections are coming from mostly.

[insuranceexec]

Originally Posted by Charpress

Depression that requires anti-depressant medications.

Maybe this is a bigger deal with Allianz, which is where these rejections are coming from mostly.

I had the same thing happen with a customer of mine last year. the lady was taking something for depression and the man was in good health. The lady was declined and her husband was approved, but again they lost the spousal discount and did not want it.

I asked them to give me one more chance to get it approved and took it through MetLife. Metlife gave the both of them a preferred rating, and the rest has been history. I do not write a great deal of LTC but I probrably submit somewhere areound 75K-100K per year in premium. Metlife has approved almost 75% of them. The ones that were doinked by Met I ran through Penn Treaty and was able to get the job done.

I talked to my contact at Allianz last month, and she said that Allianz realized that their underwriting was tough, and that they were working on it. Allianz has a great LTC product, but it is too hard to get people approved.

Great American also has a good LTC, and even has a simplified issued product, but it is rather costly.

[Never_a_dull_moment]

It's probably because your applicants were taking seroquel. Seroquel is an auto-decline by a few LTC insurers because it was originally approved by the FDA to treat schizophrenia. A lot of doctor's prescribe it "off label" for depression. It is also used for bipolar.

No long term care insurer has "tough underwriting". They all have "different underwriting".

Recently, I had Allianz approve someone who is about 60 lbs overweight, has COPD, and sleep apnea. He was an autodecline with 5 different companies (some because of his weight, some because of the combination of COPD and sleep apnea)... and he was already declined by his wife's group LTC insurer. Allianz approved him with the standard rate.

Earlier this year I had Allianz approve two cases that were both declined by Met Life.

Every long term care insurer has their underwriting niche.

[insuranceexec]

Originally Posted by Never_a_dull_moment

it's probably because your applicants were taking seroquel. Seroquel is an auto-decline by a few LTC insurers because it was originally approved by the FDA to treat schizophrenia. A lot of doctor's prescribe it "off label" for depression. It is also used for bipolar.

No long term care insurer has "tough underwriting". They all have "different underwriting".

Recently, I had Allianz approve someone who is about 60 lbs overweight, has COPD, and sleep apnea. He was an autodecline with 5 different companies (some because of his weight, some because of the combination of COPD and sleep apnea)... and he was already declined by his wife's group LTC insurer. Allianz approved him with the standard rate.

Earlier this year I had Allianz approve two cases that were both declined by Met Life.

Every long term care insurer has their underwriting niche.

I would have remembered that drug name, So the answer is no they were not taking that medication. the medication was lexapro. It is very presumptious to say that something is the case without getting all the information.

I guess the correct term would be that some companies have more liberal underwriting than others. The response to your statement is that Allianz has the most liberal underwriting; Again this is only my experience, therefore it is merely my opinion. My statement has further merit because of the person contacting me, from Allianz, asking me for more of my business. If you have a person in underwriting that you can sway one way or the other than good for you.

Allianz accepting a client when metlife declined the both of them. Sound to me like you work for them and trying to jockey some business...........LOL Hopefully this is not the case. Well good so what is the "niche" that Allianz falls under. I have found that as long as the client is super healthy, and rather young; then they provide the most benefit and the least expensive. prove me wrong!

Every company has a niche. I do agree!!!! Finally something we can agree on...

[Never_a_dull_moment]

Actually, when I was mentioning the "seroquel", I was replying to Charpress' post about have 3 declines for depression.

Seroquel is also called quetiapine. And, it is usually prescribed for depression, but it's an auto-decline with several LTC insurers.

And, no, I wouldn't say that some companies have "more liberal underwriting" than others. We need to be condition-specific.

I tell my clients that each company has a different way of looking at each specific condition. Some are more liberal with diabetes, some are more liberal with heart disease, some are more liberal with obesity, some are more liberal with cancer, some are more liberal with depression, etc...

The reality is, that when you look at the top ten long term care insurers, someone could be declined by 8 of them, but approved by at least 1 or 2.

There are only 13 health conditions that are automatically declined by every leading long term care insurer. If our clients don't have any of those 13 conditions, then there's about a 90% chance that they could qualify for coverage from one of the top ten LTC insurers (A-rated or higher) (I'm not talking about PTNA or BL&C.)
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Charpress,
I hope you placed your clients with a different company after they were declined by ALZ.

[insuranceexec]

Originally Posted by Never_a_dull_moment

Actually, when I was mentioning the "seroquel", I was replying to Charpress' post about have 3 declines for depression.

Seroquel is also called quetiapine. And, it is usually prescribed for depression, but it's an auto-decline with several LTC insurers.

And, no, I wouldn't say that some companies have "more liberal underwriting" than others. We need to be condition-specific.

I tell my clients that each company has a different way of looking at each specific condition. Some are more liberal with diabetes, some are more liberal with heart disease, some are more liberal with obesity, some are more liberal with cancer, some are more liberal with depression, etc...

The reality is, that when you look at the top ten long term care insurers, someone could be declined by 8 of them, but approved by at least 1 or 2.

There are only 13 health conditions that are automatically declined by every leading long term care insurer. If our clients don't have any of those 13 conditions, then there's about a 90% chance that they could qualify for coverage from one of the top ten LTC insurers (A-rated or higher) (I'm not talking about PTNA or BL&C.)
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Charpress,
I hope you placed your clients with a different company after they were declined by ALZ.

When you are replying to a post, it may be a good idea to start with the person you are replying too.

To summarize what you were saying; some companies have more liberal underwriting on certain specific disease's. And some companies just have more specific disease's that they are more liberal on, but I thank you for proving my point.

Another thing that I have found is that depending on the time of the day that the underwriter gets the app; will often determine how favorably he/she will underwrite.

So if we know the mood of the underwriter will determine the outcome of our applications; then why don't we hire prostitutes to put them in a real good mood.........LOL just a thought.

I too do not like going through any company that is less than an A rating. To be more specific what companies do you consider to be the big 10 or 13?

[Never_a_dull_moment]

The LTC insurers that have consistently written the most business, year in and year out, and have good financial ratings are (listed alphabetically):

Allianz
Genworth
John Hancock
Mass Mutual
Medamerica
Met Life
Mutual of Omaha
New York Life
Prudential
State Farm
UNUM
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[Charpress]

The drug was Xanax with one and Prozac with another. I personally don't consider these big deals as such. With the recent decline, it had something to do also with their telephone interview with the client about her depression problems.

One thing I like about Allianz is they email with their decision ahead of writing the client and they give me the real scoop. The letter to the client is more diplomatic.

I am indeed getting with them to place them elsewhere. They don't want to do anything until after Christmas. Sound familiar?

I can do Genworth, Hancock and Penn Treaty. I also will look at LTC riders on annuities,

[Never_a_dull_moment]

I think PTNA stopped taking new applications a few months ago. And, I'm pretty sure that they still need to raise about another $30 or $40 million in the next few weeks to avoid conservatorship.

Why are you limited to just Allianz, Hancock and Genworth? Do you sell securities?

[Charpress]

I agree, Penn would not be a good choice these days.

I mentioned these three since I'm appointed with them. I've never had the need to look elsewhere. I don't go too much out of my way to sell LTC.

[retread]

Originally Posted by Charpress

I agree, Penn would not be a good choice these days.

I mentioned these three since I'm appointed with them. I've never had the need to look elsewhere. I don't go too much out of my way to sell LTC.

IMHO PTNA should not have been a viable source for quite a while (over a year). Anyone doing their due diligence would see their long history of financial instability. Matter of fact, lost some states (Florida most notably) for that reason.

Agents that are swayed by easy application/ fast approval are not doing thier clients good service. Long term care precludes long term viability.

I have gone several rounds with others over this company, and still there are those that keep shoveling sand against the tide. It won't be long before PTNA will be dead, and will not pose a problem for the future.

[TonyC]

Good post...thnsk

[Never_a_dull_moment]

If you need help with a hard to place LTCi case, go to:

www.declinesintocash.com