Salem, I think you missed the point. He doesn't want us to actually explain whole life or any part of life insurance to him. There are apparently only two companies that will even talk to him, Monumental and MoO. He has apparently decided he likes Monumental better for some reason and wants us to justify his decision for him. That way he will feel better, and if he fails he can blame us for his failure.
Don't feel too bad. It wasn't until the post you responded to that it came to me. Lots of helpful people on here, including yourself. This site was a great help when I was trying to decide where I wanted to start at.
That's not true, and by the way it is her. Your assumption is false. I am not here to blame anyone for anything. I am sincerely asking for advice...I'm going back and forth on this. Monumental appears to be more price competitive but with MOO, I think I can learn a more variety of products but I would like to be able to sell the line which I feel would be best for families and friends since that 's where I'm starting. Honestly, I find this ... on your part that you would make such assumption. All your assumption is wrong. My question is my question, no hidden messages. I am trying to learn insurance, so please... I really appreciate those who are taking the time to help me learn this. Thank you. As I truly value those with alot more experience than me which mine at this point is practically zero. I am just getting into this.
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Ps...By the way there are more than just 2 of these companies who have been willing to talk to me and who I have already talked to. The reason I narrowed it down to these 2 is the advice here is it
S best to be noncaptive. These companies are noncaptive and still willing to train me.
Last edited by insurancemet : 06-13-2009 at 04:58 PM.
Reason: Posts merged
That's not true, and by the way it is her. Your assumption is false. I am not here to blame anyone for anything. I am sincerely asking for advice...I'm going back and forth on this. Monumental appears to be more price competitive but with MOO, I think I can learn a more variety of products but I would like to be able to sell the line which I feel would be best for families and friends since that 's where I'm starting. Honestly, I find this ... on your part that you would make such assumption. All your assumption is wrong. My question is my question, no hidden messages. I am trying to learn insurance, so please... I really appreciate those who are taking the time to help me learn this. Thank you. As I truly value those with alot more experience than me which mine at this point is practically zero. I am just getting into this.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ps...By the way there are more than just 2 of these companies who have been willing to talk to me and who I have already talked to. The reason I narrowed it down to these 2 is the advice here is it
S best to be noncaptive. These companies are noncaptive and still willing to train me.
If they're both non captive sign up for both of them.
ps...By the way there are more than just 2 of these companies who have been willing to talk to me and who I have already talked to. The reason I narrowed it down to these 2 is the advice here is it
S best to be noncaptive. These companies are noncaptive and still willing to train me.
That advice is, in my opinion, very bad advice. Life Insurance can be sold by anyone, captive or non-captive. The vast majority of MDRT and Top Of The Table producers are under captive contracts with the big carriers. There IS a reason for that! There are MDRT level producers on this forum, none of whom would ever give that advice here.
Going independent AFTER you've really learned both how the products work and how to sell them is an individual choice. I cannot imagine that there are many if any MDRT or TOTT producers who were never under a captive contract to learn.
The two options you are currently considering are going to be options where whatever training you might receive is probably NOT going to be provided by a person who has EVER qualified for MDRT, much less Top Of The Table. You will learn little, get blown out on any serious cases you might run into and end up brushing toast crumbs off the kitchen table at 9 PM trying to get someone to buy a product that will earn you $150 commission.
If you want to get good at life insurance, forget the pretenders and go captive with a major player and learn how it works and how to sell, in all markets. Once you actually know what you are doing, then you can go out on your own if you like.
Pps. NY life is captive, they aggressively tried to recruit me but it is definetely captive, you can't even be involve in anything else as far as making money. They have a broker acct which is what your probably talking about but in the beginning you have to come in as captive. Mass, we played phone tags so many times, I gave up. Northwestern, someone here attested that you couldn't take your book of business with you. American General, I talked to them as well but because of what's been going on with AIG, I decided not to go with them. So, I'm pointing these out because appears you don't think Im serious. I am struggling to make a decision and came to this forum for help. I'm aware that in the end, I will be responsible for my choice. I am lost how you even came up with that assumption. I feel I have spent enough time researching and again, I've narrowed down to these 2 companies. Alot of people have shared valuable information with me that I highly value and helping me to think which one I should go with. I'm not here to waste time, I'm here to ask for help.
Follow Dave's advice. If you really want to be a big producer in life insurance, MDRT and TOT, then you need to be looking at NYL, Mass, or Northwestern. NYL will loosen up on you once you are about 5 years into your contract. Mass is very liberal with their rules. They just do not want to see too much outside business activities (OBA), and they want all your whole life, unless you have an EXTREMELY good reason. Keep your U-4 up to date with Mass and they'll be happy. Of course, your mileage may vary with GA. Heck, even MetLife will get you in some doors.
There is a gentleman in our office who made MDRT for over 25 years. Do you think he got there only selling the equivalent of a $50/month term case? No, he has done business with some of the biggest CEOs and businessmen in our town. He has done it all this time with one company.
I have several clients that would have laughed me out of their offices without the name and senior people in the office to back me. Instead, they have the protection they need, I made good money, and by extension they see me as a knowledgeable expert and professional. Now, if you have a big desire to tour the kitchen tables in your hometown go ahead and ignore all this advice.
But do remember one thing, this board is mainly populated by independent guys. Of course they are going to tell you to be non-captive. And I hate to break this to you, but being non-captive in life insurance isn't as important as you think. You'd be shocked if you knew how many orphan accounts these companies have. They pretty much forget about the client, it is the agent and agencies job to keep up with the client. They are more concerned that you are not busy replacing all the business you did, which you won't do anyway. NYL, Mass, and Northwestern policies are generally too good to be replaced. However, you can do all the new business with your clients that you want, and your old company will probably never care.
Follow Dave's advice. If you really want to be a big producer in life insurance, MDRT and TOT, then you need to be looking at NYL, Mass, or Northwestern. NYL will loosen up on you once you are about 5 years into your contract. Mass is very liberal with their rules. They just do not want to see too much outside business activities (OBA), and they want all your whole life, unless you have an EXTREMELY good reason. Keep your U-4 up to date with Mass and they'll be happy. Of course, your mileage may vary with GA. Heck, even MetLife will get you in some doors.
There is a gentleman in our office who made MDRT for over 25 years. Do you think he got there only selling the equivalent of a $50/month term case? No, he has done business with some of the biggest CEOs and businessmen in our town. He has done it all this time with one company.
I have several clients that would have laughed me out of their offices without the name and senior people in the office to back me. Instead, they have the protection they need, I made good money, and by extension they see me as a knowledgeable expert and professional. Now, if you have a big desire to tour the kitchen tables in your hometown go ahead and ignore all this advice.
But do remember one thing, this board is mainly populated by independent guys. Of course they are going to tell you to be non-captive. And I hate to break this to you, but being non-captive in life insurance isn't as important as you think. You'd be shocked if you knew how many orphan accounts these companies have. They pretty much forget about the client, it is the agent and agencies job to keep up with the client. They are more concerned that you are not busy replacing all the business you did, which you won't do anyway. NYL, Mass, and Northwestern policies are generally too good to be replaced. However, you can do all the new business with your clients that you want, and your old company will probably never care.
I agree with what you wrote. The captive and independent contracts both have their advantages and disadvantages. The big companies you mentioned do tend to attract a more elitist clientele and that would explain why you have more MDRT members. Their agents do appear to be highly trained in advanced cases also. I've been with both the captive and now on the independent side. It always seemed to come down to a project 200 list of everyone you know, and then networking your way in to groups and rubbing elbows with the big wigs. I just grew tired of the whole prospecting system the old school way. Even though I'll admit it's one of the best ways to go.
I've been overseas the past few years. A year before I came back my wife and I bought a new house in Salem, VA. I just got back a couple months ago and I'd be lucky if I could come up with a project 20 list. I really don't know anyone here except my wifes friends. I've decided that the way for me to go now is to sell over the internet and phone. I'm lead junkie now and don't see anyone face to face. I write a lot of little term policies. But at the end of the day it's all good and I'm happy with that. There are times when I do miss the old face to face captive agency companies though, but not enough to change what I'm doing. I may never get to write a 10k commission case on the CEO of some big company that I've been chasing for months. But I'm just as happy writting a bunch of small term policies for a few hundred in commission a year from my office on my property. I don't feel one way or the other is better or any less honorable. We're all in the same game of getting people covered and making money.
They just recently created a new contract..independent p/t agent although, you don't get a book, they will still fully train you. Do you have any opinion regarding whether MOO is better to go with or Monumental, are you familial with their products, do you know if their pricing is competitive and if their products are good as well?
In the Monumental offices I'm familiar with you'd be doing good to get any decent training (particularly product training) as a FT agent, so I can't imagine a "part timer" getting much, especially if as you say you won't be captive. What's really in it for them? What incentive is there to sell their product unless it's some bonus program? But as they say, your mileage may vary. Even with the big names like NYL, NML, Met Life etc. your experience can vary a great deal from office to office.
I would also consider who you are looking to market. If you are looking to work big life cases, then you'd be better off taking Dave Fluker's advice. It's highly unlikely you'll get half of the training you'd need from either company, and there are a good number of other companies (Prudential, Met Life, Guardian etc.) that would be better options than either one of those. (Although in some more rural areas of the country the big boys aren't that active and may not really be a viable option, especially WRT regular training. In my hometown for example if I wanted to work for NYL I would have had to drive 2 hours one way to get to the closest office. It's little wonder then that they struggled to recruit agents in the area.) If as noted above you are instead looking to sell to "mom and pop" across the kitchen table, then Monumental and MOO aren't bad options. At least you're not talking NAA, Mega, Bankers, UA, AIL, or whatever. Both of the companies you are looking at are excellent compared to those. I'd look into Physicians Mutual as well if there is an office near you.
As for the differences between the companies, Monumental is still basically focused on whole life with maybe a little emphasis on the senior market. (With their agency system that often has clients who have been on the books for years, it would be a natural fit, IMO.) With Mutual of Omaha, there is the big emphasis on the senior market with Medicare supplements.
I am also somewhat surprised that a MOO office would train non-captive agents as well. As has been noted in this thread previously, what's in it for them? Practically every broker and FMO in the country that works the senior market is contracted with them.
I interviewed with one of their managers a few years ago and if I recall correctly you could contract directly with them as an indy but the training and leads were for captives. I'm no expert on their organization by any stretch of the imagination, but I think you might want to look again to make sure your understanding is correct. MOO's captive agents are not employees but are 1099 independent contractors. Some people who are new to the business confuse that with being non-captive. Also, it's likely that you may be able to receive training and maybe some higher level contracts through an FMO for them instead of contracting direct. Doing that would also give you access to a much greater number of carriers.
Last edited by Cenla Agent : 06-13-2009 at 08:57 PM.
Re: Whole Life Getting More Confuse
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