Appropriate to roll over entire 401k to FIA?

[Allen Trent]

Those are all flex premium policies. No rolling surrender charges.

Im pretty sure both give 30 days to decide at renewal.

Actually, Integrity has one of the concepts I have always dreamed of for utilizing laddering within 1 annuity Policy, New Momentum. Essentially, a flexible premium that lets you get the money paid into it, then separate optional MYGA buckets attached to the contract. But, theirs does start new surrender charge each Premium deposit into it (common with flex products).

What I don't know is if renewal of a GIR period restarts surrender charge or if only when premiums are paid into the contract in the flexible QIO bucket. It would just seem odd with today's product designs that 10 years from now, if a person chose to renew their GIR & add money from QIO into say a 7 year GIR that they could turn around & surrender without surrender charge. This would put the carrier in a really bad spot & thus, the likelihood that the interest rate offered would not be very good in the GIR if you got the benefit of the rate lock without the consequences of leaving early

Premiums flow in potentially as flex premiums into the QIO & QIO has intersest set each Quarter. Client can move portions into the MYGA like buckets, GIR. Think they offer like 3,5, 7 & 10 year rate locks on that portion of the money.

Really could be a very nice concept. Ladder a portion of it without having to buy 4-5 MYGAs.

To allow better more competitive rates, the GIR "MYGA like" portions really do need permanent surrender charges that re-up each time a portion re-ups for a new rate lock. Otherwise, without surrender charge, it will credit lower rates & carrier wont be able to match new money rates, etc

Anyone know if the surrender charges are really just tied to original individual premium deposit or does the GIR rate lock have another set of surrender charge schedule

 

[LostDollar]

$200 per hour?

I will tell you for free....

No, it does not exist.

But you can get 3.45% with Integrity Life New Momentum 7, and get all the other features you want.

OR....

Pay $10k and get all the rest of the features with Athene Max Rate 7, paying 4.85%.

OR....

Get a non-guaranteed 5.5%, with a guarantee of no less than 3.14%, with Integrity Life New Momentum QIO.

I'm not sure that those options allow for this:



What LD didn't add in was that he wouldn't want the surrender charge schedule to restart with the new deposits into the contact. I'm sure he'd rather have non-rolling surrender charges and have them based on the contract years, not premium deposits made.

And again, as @scagnt83 said... it doesn't exist. (But I think he should charge $500 an hour to tell you that, not just $200 an hour... and yes, he's worth it. So am I.)

Actually, Integrity has one of the concepts I have always dreamed of for utilizing laddering within 1 annuity Policy, New Momentum. Essentially, a flexible premium that lets you get the money paid into it, then separate optional MYGA buckets attached to the contract. But, theirs does start new surrender charge each Premium deposit into it (common with flex products).

What I don't know is if renewal of a GIR period restarts surrender charge or if only when premiums are paid into the contract in the flexible QIO bucket. It would just seem odd with today's product designs that 10 years from now, if a person chose to renew their GIR & add money from QIO into say a 7 year GIR that they could turn around & surrender without surrender charge. This would put the carrier in a really bad spot & thus, the likelihood that the interest rate offered would not be very good in the GIR if you got the benefit of the rate lock without the consequences of leaving early

Premiums flow in potentially as flex premiums into the QIO & QIO has intersest set each Quarter. Client can move portions into the MYGA like buckets, GIR. Think they offer like 3,5, 7 & 10 year rate locks on that portion of the money.

Really could be a very nice concept. Ladder a portion of it without having to buy 4-5 MYGAs.

To allow better more competitive rates, the GIR "MYGA like" portions really do need permanent surrender charges that re-up each time a portion re-ups for a new rate lock. Otherwise, without surrender charge, it will credit lower rates & carrier wont be able to match new money rates, etc

Anyone know if the surrender charges are really just tied to original individual premium deposit or does the GIR rate lock have another set of surrender charge schedule

To me, a flexible premium annuity looked like a good solution for someone who had some cash flow but not lump sums at annuity purchase levels. Comments and discussions in the thread suggest that that type of product presents administrative problems for insurance carriers which I do not have the financial technical knowledge to understand.

So;

TR says annuity rates are going to fall. Since I am an impressionable youngster, that provides some push towards fear based buying.

SCA says I should be working on simplifying my financial affairs, considering both personal cognition and the lack of ability and interest of others to deal with financial complexities I have created.

Long time passing, AT mentioned American National as a possible annuity carrier solve for a situation I presented.

Say I have $5,100 (non-qualified and it is unlikely that I could add any more non qualified money to it in the next 12-18 months).

I could put it in an 11 month cd locally at 5,25% for 11 months. At term it would default to a 12 month CD at the then current rates (somewhere between 0.50% and 1.00% currently).

I could take it to Navy Federal Credit Union and split it into three $1,700 parts by purchasing 4% CD's with 3yr, 5yr and 7yr terms.

I could get someone (perhaps Blueprint Income) to sell me an American National 8yr MYGA at 5.20%. (7-10 years all 5.20%, 8yr just feels right.)

I suspect there is a list of potential problems that could be made for each of those options. I know I am not financially sophisticated enough to see all the issues.

However; given the presence of those other options, why would I want to consider the Integrity Life thingy which appears to be far more complicated than I expected, AND my wife would have to cope with if I should die prior to the end of the 7 year term?

 

[Allen Trent]

To me, a flexible premium annuity looked like a good solution for someone who had some cash flow but not lump sums at annuity purchase levels. Comments and discussions in the thread suggest that that type of product presents administrative problems for insurance carriers which I do not have the financial technical knowledge to understand.

So;

TR says annuity rates are going to fall. Since I am an impressionable youngster, that provides some push towards fear based buying.

SCA says I should be working on simplifying my financial affairs, considering both personal cognition and the lack of ability and interest of others to deal with financial complexities I have created.

Long time passing, AT mentioned American National as a possible annuity carrier solve for a situation I presented.

Say I have $5,100 (non-qualified and it is unlikely that I could add any more non qualified money to it in the next 12-18 months).

I could put it in an 11 month cd locally at 5,25% for 11 months. At term it would default to a 12 month CD at the then current rates (somewhere between 0.50% and 1.00% currently).

I could take it to Navy Federal Credit Union and split it into three $1,700 parts by purchasing 4% CD's with 3yr, 5yr and 7yr terms.

I could get someone (perhaps Blueprint Income) to sell me an American National 8yr MYGA at 5.20%. (7-10 years all 5.20%, 8yr just feels right.)

I suspect there is a list of potential problems that could be made for each of those options. I know I am not financially sophisticated enough to see all the issues.

However; given the presence of those other options, why would I want to consider the Integrity Life thingy which appears to be far more complicated than I expected, AND my wife would have to cope with if I should die prior to the end of the 7 year term?

What is the plan for the money?

 

[DHK]

If we're only talking about $5,100 then I'd make it very easy and just open laddered CDs (different term lengths) at your local bank or credit union. Not worth the complexity of annuities. If you needed to access one, you can do it easily in one visit and only forfeit the interest that would've been credited if you had to cash it in befure maturity date.

Make sure you list "TOD" beneficiaries (transfer on death) and that your beneficiaries know where and how to access the funds.

 

[LostDollar]

I'm not sure that those options allow for this:



What LD didn't add in was that he wouldn't want the surrender charge schedule to restart with the new deposits into the contact. I'm sure he'd rather have non-rolling surrender charges and have them based on the contract years, not premium deposits made.

And again, as @scagnt83 said... it doesn't exist. (But I think he should charge $500 an hour to tell you that, not just $200 an hour... and yes, he's worth it. So am I.)

I had forgotten about surrender charge comments in this thread and discussion.

( I don't have the specific brochure for what I am asking about, but I think it will be the same as what follows)

If I find a flexible premium product that allows additional contributions for 5 years

It has this verbiage:

Additional premiums deposited into existing contracts will maintain the surrender charge schedule set forth at policy issue date

and this schedule
YR 1&2 10%
YR 3&4 9%
YR 5&6 8%

Am I right in assuming that deposits I would make in years 3,4, and 5 would NOT revert to 10% surrender charges?

(I am specifically thinking about buying a product as a Roth IRA and then making a few additional annual contributions if I can meet the requirements to do so. And as usual, I am dealing with dollar volumes far below what you are used to thinking about or would sell yourself.)

 

[LostDollar]

What is the plan for the money?

still working on the specific answer to that question.

 

[DHK]

I had forgotten about surrender charge comments in this thread and discussion.

( I don't have the specific brochure for what I am asking about, but I think it will be the same as what follows)

If I find a flexible premium product that allows additional contributions for 5 years

It has this verbiage:


and this schedule
YR 1&2 10%
YR 3&4 9%
YR 5&6 8%

Am I right in assuming that deposits I would make in years 3,4, and 5 would NOT revert to 10% surrender charges?

(I am specifically thinking about buying a product as a Roth IRA and then making a few additional annual contributions if I can meet the requirements to do so. And as usual, I am dealing with dollar volumes far below what you are used to thinking about or would sell yourself.)

I can't re-quote what you specifically quoted, but that's the language I would be looking for if you're going to put additional funds into the contract.

The surrender charge schedule is based on the contract years, not based on each time you put money into the contract.

 

[ValeRosso]

Just an update to this specific case...

The full 401k rollover to a FIA was approved and completed. The annuity will provide quite a bit more income more per month than the investment company would have, so the client is happy.

 

[Tahoe Ray]

Just an update to this specific case...

The full 401k rollover to a FIA was approved and completed. The annuity will provide quite a bit more income more per month than the investment company would have, so the client is happy.

What company took that? Were there other assets besides the 60k outside the 401k?

 

[Allen Trent]

What company took that? Were there other assets besides the 60k outside the 401k?

I think he said this was a small 401k, so that their 60k other liquid assets was more than this 401k to IRA would be