Best Whole Life Plan?

[Newby]

So you would rank Penn, Mass Mutual, Guardian, and Ohio National as your top four WL policies? Ok. Can indy's broker with all four of those- =my thought was Guardian was captive only?
NExt, the fraternals like the K of C, and the Lutheran Brotherhood I have heard have some good permanent Whole life plans- agree or disagree?

Here's a more successful business model. Pick one of the four and get to selling. AFTER you are selling for awhile, if you see the need for one more you can always add it.

Fully underwritten life is not like Med Sups or FE. You will confuse yourself and your prospects if you try to get a handle on 4 companies all at once. Too much analysis kills a lot of us off before we get started.

 

[scagnt83]

Can indy's broker with all four of those- =my thought was Guardian was captive only?

For the most part yes.

You will need to go through a regional office.
ON can be tricky depending on the state.

But there is no need to get appointed with all of them. Get a contract with the one you are the most comfortable with, and then if you need another WL product you can get appointed with another later.

Guardian has a broker contract. All of those companies are captive companies at heart, and all have large career channels. But they would be stupid to not offer broker contracts.

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NExt, the fraternals like the K of C, and the Lutheran Brotherhood I have heard have some good permanent Whole life plans- agree or disagree?

I have never heard that before. Of course it depends on what you definition of "good" is.

Personally, I would never sell them for multiple reasons.
First, their products are not going to compete with the mutuals I listed.
Second, fraternals do not operate like a normal insurance company. And are not considered as financially sound usually.
Third, some E&O policies will not cover fraternals.
Fourth, SGA funds do not cover fraternals.

In short, its a whole lot more risk for a product that is at best the same, but very likely worse.

 

[xrac]

Here's a more successful business model. Pick one of the four and get to selling. AFTER you are selling for awhile, if you see the need for one more you can always add it.

Fully underwritten life is not like Med Sups or FE. You will confuse yourself and your prospects if you try to get a handle on 4 companies all at once. Too much analysis kills a lot of us off before we get started.

Too many agents suffer from analysis paralysis.

 

[WinoBlues]

For the most part yes.

You will need to go through a regional office.
ON can be tricky depending on the state.

But there is no need to get appointed with all of them. Get a contract with the one you are the most comfortable with, and then if you need another WL product you can get appointed with another later.

Guardian has a broker contract. All of those companies are captive companies at heart, and all have large career channels. But they would be stupid to not offer broker contracts.

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I have never heard that before. Of course it depends on what you definition of "good" is.

Personally, I would never sell them for multiple reasons.
First, their products are not going to compete with the mutuals I listed.
Second, fraternals do not operate like a normal insurance company. And are not considered as financially sound usually.
Third, some E&O policies will not cover fraternals.
Fourth, SGA funds do not cover fraternals.

In short, its a whole lot more risk for a product that is at best the same, but very likely worse.

Second. One of the selling points to Whole Life is the guarantees. Why not make them the strongest available?

 

[tbrennan14]

Ok - I have heard and seen the KofC whole life plan- very good fraternal dividends period- 80 billion in force - that is pretty strong but you are saying that the SGA state guaranty association doesn't cover their policies? Are you absolutely certain about that?
This is important because many of you will come up against a fraternal in the field- some are weak some are strong, then will it be advisable for the agent to do a replacement? And if you tell a potential client that the policy you want to replace is not covered by the SGA you wouldn't want to be in error. Perhaps
some states cover while others do not- I have heard some people say that NJ does cover all policies fraternal or otherwise up to the 500,000 threshold.
Also, one last point on the SGA - I have heard that you are not even allowed to mention the SGA coverage limits on a sales call in NJ. Please advise or produce some hard factual data on this- thanks

 

[scagnt83]

Ok - I have heard and seen the KofC whole life plan- very good fraternal dividends period- 80 billion in force - that is pretty strong but you are saying that the SGA state guaranty association doesn't cover their policies? Are you absolutely certain about that?
This is important because many of you will come up against a fraternal in the field- some are weak some are strong, then will it be advisable for the agent to do a replacement? And if you tell a potential client that the policy you want to replace is not covered by the SGA you wouldn't want to be in error. Perhaps
some states cover while others do not- I have heard some people say that NJ does cover all policies fraternal or otherwise up to the 500,000 threshold.
Also, one last point on the SGA - I have heard that you are not even allowed to mention the SGA coverage limits on a sales call in NJ. Please advise or produce some hard factual data on this- thanks

What is their current dividend rate? What is their historical average? What is the average RoR on a current policy that is overfunded?
Do they offer overloan protection?
Are they rated by any rating agencies?

These are the facts that matter.



SGA is state specific. Most do not cover fraternals. Some might, but many dont. Go to their website and you can find all the factual data you want.

Most states frown on advertising SGA protection. Educating a client on it is a bit different.

 

[tbrennan14]

Kof C - has the highest rating from Standard and Poors as well as Am Best.
Do not know the other figures but their historical average dividend should be high because they have tax advantage right? They do not have overloan protection. Have you ever come across them in the field? Or for that matter any other fraternals? Yes, i understand your point on the advertising of SGA. Good point well taken thanks.

 

[scagnt83]

Kof C - has the highest rating from Standard and Poors as well as Am Best.
Do not know the other figures but their historical average dividend should be high because they have tax advantage right? They do not have overloan protection. Have you ever come across them in the field? Or for that matter any other fraternals? Yes, i understand your point on the advertising of SGA. Good point well taken thanks.

They do seem to have solid financial ratings. As of 11/2012 they had the best rating from am best and the 2nd best from S&P. Maybe they have been upgraded since then.
No other ratings I can find though. (other than comdex which is a composite of the available existing ratings)


I have never encountered a single fraternal policy in the field. Doesnt mean they arent out there though.

Good ratings dont necessarily correlate to a god Wl policy. State Farm has basically the same ratings as KofC & I would not consider their WL competitive at all.
But, know that I think about it I have heard it mentioned a time or two that KofC has a strong WL. But I have no direct knowledge of it.

 

[LGilmore]

The biggest thing about a fraternal no matter what the policy, the fraternal reserves the right to make changes to the policy if the fraternal deems it necessary...

While it doesn't mean many have done this (alter policies) I personally don't like that they can. Ever. One of the biggest positives about a mutual company's Whole life is after the purchase they cannot change the terms or the guarantee of the policy. The only thing that can change is the dividend in a given year based on their performance, overhead and claims incurred. I like the certainty a good whole life offers.

Being someone who is now uninsurable, nothing is more reassuring than control of my whole life policies. They can't change the price, they can't alter the terms and they can't take it away from me.

 

[Newby]

You guys keep calling them policies. Fraternal's do not sell policies. They sell certificates.

Not the same thing.